Beginner Caliber and Rifle

[packgoatguy]

They shoot just fine, but for the ranges where a 308 makes sense the 175-185gr range recoils less.


Yes, with the right powder.




No, with those you will not get too velocity. PP2000 MR is the jam with 308’s and heavies.




Nope. Mag length and go.

Alliant power pro 2000 mr... I wish I could find that in stock... I'll add it to the list

Which of the 185 berger bullets do you like best for terminal performance on big game?

Thanks again

 

[Formidilosus]

Alliant power pro 2000 mr... I wish I could find that in stock... I'll add it to the list

Which of the 185 berger bullets do you like best for terminal performance on big game?

Thanks again

The 185gr VLD is you want maximum upset, the 185gr Juggernaut is you want good wounds with exits.

 

[packgoatguy]

The 185gr VLD is you want maximum upset, the 185gr Juggernaut is you want good wounds with exits.

Will both of those expand well down to 1800fps or do they need a higher minimum impact velocity to perform?

 

[Formidilosus]

Will both of those expand well down to 1800fps or do they need a higher minimum impact velocity to perform?

From what I’ve seen, yes. I like a bit higher- about 1,900fps with Bergers, but I/we have killed a lot of animals with 185gr Juggs. Nobody likes the recoil anymore.

 

[packgoatguy]

From what I’ve seen, yes. I like a bit higher- about 1,900fps with Bergers, but I/we have killed a lot of animals with 185gr Juggs. Nobody likes the recoil anymore.

How does the 175 tmk compare to the 185 jug? Penetration, minimum impact velocity performance fps, more mv but less bc?

 

[Formidilosus]

How does the 175 tmk compare to the 185 jug? Penetration, minimum impact velocity performance fps, more mv but less bc?

The Jugg will penetrate 18-22” usually. The 175gr TMK 16-20” normally. The TMK will create a wider wound at all ranges, and will reliably upset at 1,800fps. Hit rates between the two wash out or the TMK is better for most due to less recoil.

I prefer the 168gr or 175gr TMK to the Bergers for hunting.

 

[packgoatguy]

The Jugg will penetrate 18-22” usually. The 175gr TMK 16-20” normally. The TMK will create a wider wound at all ranges, and will reliably upset at 1,800fps. Hit rates between the two wash out or the TMK is better for most due to less recoil.

I prefer the 168gr or 175gr TMK to the Bergers for hunting.

What kind of MV do you get with the 168/175 tmk with the pp2000mr? Factory 22 inch tikka? Have you messed with a shortened tikka 308 (18 inches or so?) to run a can more conveniently? What kind of MV might you get with the shortened tikka barrel?

 

[Formidilosus]

What kind of MV do you get with the 168/175 tmk with the pp2000mr? Factory 22 inch tikka? Have you messed with a shortened tikka 308 (18 inches or so?) to run a can more conveniently? What kind of MV might you get with the shortened tikka barrel?

22” your still in the 2,700’ish FPS range.

Barrel length there is no magic. 20-30fps loss per inch of barrel.

 

[Ikmclean]

The one good thing hunting/rifle-wise about living in California is you can hunt Blacktails with .223. What could be funner to shoot for a newbie kid than a mini-action?

I plan on starting my kids with a mini action 6arc

 

[packgoatguy]

It’s because out to 450’ish yards it has by far the highest success/hit/kill rate of anything made for everyone of everything we have used (which is most on the market).





6 or 6.5cm for 700 yards. 223/77tmk to about 450-500’ish for me.






Yes.

Form, you've mentioned in other posts that you and yours have been using 22-250 tikkas rechambered to 22 creedmoor. Where would you rank the 22CM against the 223rem and 6cm or 6.5cm tikka as a good "all around" cartridge for big game out to 600/700 yards? What barrel length are you using with the 22cm?

Question 2:
Assuming someone wanted the shortest most compact rifle possible, say a 16-18 inch barrel... and also assuming they wanted a cartridge/bullet option that wouldn't drop below 2000fps until beyond 600 yards... what is the best cartridge option and bullet choice considering the reduced velocity from the shorter barrel? (My ballistic calculator ap says that a MV of 2800fps with an 88eldm out of a 22cm would still have that at least velocity at 600 yards, as would a 140gr eldm at 2640fps mv out of a short 6.5cm would do it as well, but i would probably need at least an 18 inch barrel with the 6.5cm to get that mv??)

Last question; how would you compare the recoil between the 6.5cm and the 22cm (suppressed)?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

here are some very closely related posts he's made previously.

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

I have only shot them (77tmk) at 100 yds so far, but in two 1:9 rifles accuracy was very good. Even tried them in a 1:10 rifle and shot a .75 10 shot group?? Killed a deer with one of the 1:9 guns. Seemed to perform as expected. 100yds What was elevation? Daughter's 1:9 rifle shoots 69gr...

rokslide.com

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

Careful what you say, he is an instructor

rokslide.com

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, you've mentioned in other posts that you and yours have been using 22-250 tikkas rechambered to 22 creedmoor. Where would you rank the 22CM against the 223rem and 6cm or 6.5cm tikka as a good "all around" cartridge for big game out to 600/700 yards?

They are more alike than different.

What barrel length are you using with the 22cm?

16” to 24”.

Question 2:
Assuming someone wanted the shortest most compact rifle possible, say a 16-18 inch barrel... and also assuming they wanted a cartridge/bullet option that wouldn't drop below 2000fps until beyond 600 yards... what is the best cartridge option and bullet choice considering the reduced velocity from the shorter barrel? (My ballistic calculator ap says that a MV of 2800fps with an 88eldm out of a 22cm would still have that at least velocity at 600 yards, as would a 140gr eldm at 2640fps mv out of a short 6.5cm would do it as well, but i would probably need at least an 18 inch barrel with the 6.5cm to get that mv??)

22CM or 6cm.

Last question; how would you compare the recoil between the 6.5cm and the 22cm (suppressed)?

Significantly and noticeably less.

 

[SwiftShot]

Your first idea is spot on. Tika 6.5

 

[JBradley500]

@Formidilosus are there circumstances where you feel the need to hunt with magnum cartridges in North America? Maybe big brown bear?

If you had a 1 in 8 twist 223 and a 1 in 8 twist 6.5cm would you want a third option with more bullet or case capacity? If so, what would that cartridge be?

These are just questions I wonder after reading tons of your posts. Thanks.

 

[JoSwan]

I would go for a 243 or a 308. Recoil is easy and ammo will always be available. Those little ruger Americans would be a nice entry level rifle for anyone.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus are there circumstances where you feel the need to hunt with magnum cartridges in North America? Maybe big brown bear?

No. I will and would happily kill any bear walking with a good bullet in 223.

If you had a 1 in 8 twist 223 and a 1 in 8 twist 6.5cm would you want a third option with more bullet or case capacity? If so, what would that cartridge be?

These are just questions I wonder after reading tons of your posts. Thanks.

The only reason I would need or want more, is if doing certain hunts at truly long range- where shots start at 900’ish. It’s not due to terminal performance; instead it’s for ability for a spotter to see trace, splash, and misses easier at those very long range.

 

[packgoatguy]

The Jugg will penetrate 18-22” usually. The 175gr TMK 16-20” normally. The TMK will create a wider wound at all ranges, and will reliably upset at 1,800fps. Hit rates between the two wash out or the TMK is better for most due to less recoil.

I prefer the 168gr or 175gr TMK to the Bergers for hunting.

How does the 168 ELD-M compare to the 168 TMK? (minimum terminal performance velocity, penetration, wound channel width, etc?)

Also, off topic... but how do the hornady A-Tips work as hunting bullets?

 

[NateTP38]

Significantly and noticeably less.

In your (or anyone else's) experience, is there a noticeable recoil difference between 22CM and 223?

 

[z987k]

In your (or anyone else's) experience, is there a noticeable recoil difference between 22CM and 223?

Quantitatively, you should be able to get an idea with this -

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

An online calculator that calculates the recoil energy, impulse, and velocity of a firearm according to the firearm's weight, powder charge, bullet weight, and bullet muzzle velocity.

shooterscalculator.com

 

[Formidilosus]

How does the 168 ELD-M compare to the 168 TMK? (minimum terminal performance velocity, penetration, wound channel width, etc?)

They are so close to each other that it would be hard for someone to separate them. In general, the TMK will penetrate slightly deeper (like an inch or two).

Also, off topic... but how do the hornady A-Tips work as hunting bullets?

They are variable across the line, and variable for each bullet. Sometimes fragmenting violently, sometimes behaving as a Berger VLD, and sometimes ice picking.