Bear Defense Sidearm for Small Hands

[rileybassman]

I had all the same issues and handled about everything mentioned here. I ended up getting the Glock 20.
The FN is nice, and smaller in the grip but its nearly twice as much and future support is a concern.
The Sig 10s have serious issues from what I've seen. I'm a Sig fanboy and that would have been my choice if not for the mag/feeding issues.
I've looked at the Razorback but a heavy single stack with only 8 round capacity is giving up a lot. You may or not struggle with changing to the other grip angle.
I had an XDm. I liked it and no issues, but Glock go bang every time as a woods gun.
IMO if you're proficient with your G45, load it up wih Underwood or Buffalo bore and you'll be in better shape than most.

Future support? Curious your thoughts on this as it's a well established, military funded company with US made pistols? The 509/10 lines are pretty well established at this point. Price point, yeah, tactical is more, but you get much more and have your $$ staying here. The MRD is a couple hundred cheaper and competes closer with the glock (non-threaded barrel, optics cut).

Had an X-ten - as long as they were 200s and below it ran fine - 220s (aka BB or DT) mag chokes.

Wife has had a couple XDms including the 3.8 elite. They work and go bang, I just have never been fond of them for some reason - texture sucks.

Glock is the old standby - several gen 5 vids seem to show feeding problems, not been my experience - it's been reliable.

It's a golden era for 10mm and it's an exciting time!

 

[Justin (Raz) Rasmussen]

I know the "which gun for bear defense" has been beat to death, but I am hoping some folks that have smaller hands can chime in. I am in need of a sidearm to carry while in grizzly country. I looked into the Glock 20 as I shoot GSSF competitions with a G45 and carry a G43x and generally really like Glock. Unfortunately, I am running into a problem with the G20 where my hands are physically too small to have enough contact on the grip. I even noticed my support hand is gripping differently than on my G45 and G43x. For reference, I generally have to wear medium gloves. Seems like the G20 may just not be right for me due to the overall size of the frame so I am looking at alternatives with the following criteria and hoping for some good alternatives and commentary. To be extra difficult, I am not really interested in learning revolvers as I am pretty competent with semi-autos and am not too eager to have to start from scratch on learning to shoot. I also don't really trust the Sig P320 platform or M&P 10mm platform due to the old drop safety issues of the Sigs and the generally poor reports from the M&P 10mm (unless the new M&Ps are actually working now). I could spend up to $1100 but would have to cut off there to leave room for ammo, a shell for my Kenai Chest Holster, and potentially new iron sights. I am interested in thoughts on the options below, but also other recommendations on different sidearms if I left one off.

Options:
- HK45 or HK USP 45 in .45 Super
- Glock 22.5 in .40S&W
- Springfield Ronin 10mm
- Ruger SR1911 10mm

Other relevant information. I would be using hard cast lead from either Buffalo Bore, Underwood, or someone similar. Will be carrying bear spray as well but want to keep a sidearm for the "just in-case".

If you shoot you G45 fast and accurate then get some underwood 147 hard cast for it and you're good to go.

 

[JSC2626]

I had all the same issues and handled about everything mentioned here. I ended up getting the Glock 20.
The FN is nice, and smaller in the grip but its nearly twice as much and future support is a concern.
The Sig 10s have serious issues from what I've seen. I'm a Sig fanboy and that would have been my choice if not for the mag/feeding issues.
I've looked at the Razorback but a heavy single stack with only 8 round capacity is giving up a lot. You may or not struggle with changing to the other grip angle.
I had an XDm. I liked it and no issues, but Glock go bang every time as a woods gun.
IMO if you're proficient with your G45, load it up wih Underwood or Buffalo bore and you'll be in better shape than most.

I actually do struggle with non-Glock grip angles so it's something for me to keep in mind. I always present my wife's S&W EZ low, same with a Sig 220 legion I looked at. Sounds like my best option may be to keep using the G45 with hardcast. I have considered picking up a G22 .40 cal and using hardcast just to get a slight bump up without changing grip size and angle.

 

[JSC2626]

If you shoot you G45 fast and accurate then get some underwood 147 hard cast for it and you're good to go.

That seems to be the most recurring feedback. May do that or pick up the G22 to get a slight bump up. It would be nice to not have to change holsters and relearn to shoot new grip angles and triggers.

 

[Kurts86]

If you go the G20 route, a shorter reach flat trigger like an overwatch precision dat does shorten the effective trigger reach.

 

[JSC2626]

If you go the G20 route, a shorter reach flat trigger like an overwatch precision dat does shorten the effective trigger reach.

I may have to get one of those for my G45 just to try out. Based on some of the feedback from others, I think I am going to either run my G45 since I am already proficient with it or grab a .40 cal to get a slight bump up.

 

[MattB]

Do some reading on pistol defense articles… something like 97% success rate across all calibers. All handguns are a compromise for a big bear - but, it does seem like putting up a fight with well placed, hard cast shots, from most calibers discourages them enough to survive.

Penetration wise, 9mm with hardcast will be close to a 10mm and you would need CNS to “stop” a bear in a best case scenario either way.

That said, I do prefer the 10mm, but if you can’t find one you like, I’d carry a 9 with underwood and practice getting shots on target quick.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Buffalo Bore’s site says their 10mm Outdoorsman will penetrate more than 3 feet and their 9mm Outdoorsman will penetrate 4-6 feet, so it looks like their tests have the 9mm out penetrating the 10mm.

 

[JSC2626]

Buffalo Bore’s site says their 10mm Outdoorsman will penetrate more than 3 feet and their 9mm Outdoorsman will penetrate 4-6 feet, so it looks like their tests have the 9mm out penetrating the 10mm.

That’s pretty shocking, but makes me feel better about considering not bumping up to the 10

 

[Thinkingman]

Have you looked at the G20SF or G29? Glock platform but smaller grip size than the G20.

This.
If you're a Glock shooter, your muscle memory(that which will take over when the SHTF) is ingrained for the Glock grip angle.
Just like 1911 and Sig grip angle have me on target without aligning the sights, you need to stay with the Glock.
FYI, I have similar size hands as the OP and my go-to carry is Sig P365X with Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman loads.
Fits my hand and very accurate.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I found it was less about the grip size and more about the grip ergonomics when looking for my first pistol. Smaller grip wasn't necessarily the answer. The Sig P320-M18 fits my hands well and is comfortable to shoot.

 

[Formidilosus]

That’s pretty shocking, but makes me feel better about considering not bumping up to the 10

Not shocking at all. The 9mm has less frontal diameter, and does indeed penetrate deeper.

 

[kpk]

Future support? Curious your thoughts on this as it's a well established, military funded company with US made pistols? The 509/10 lines are pretty well established at this point. Price point, yeah, tactical is more, but you get much more and have your $$ staying here. The MRD is a couple hundred cheaper and competes closer with the glock (non-threaded barrel, optics cut).

Had an X-ten - as long as they were 200s and below it ran fine - 220s (aka BB or DT) mag chokes.

Wife has had a couple XDms including the 3.8 elite. They work and go bang, I just have never been fond of them for some reason - texture sucks.

Glock is the old standby - several gen 5 vids seem to show feeding problems, not been my experience - it's been reliable.

It's a golden era for 10mm and it's an exciting time!

No personal experience with FN, but there were a lot of complaints about their customer service and parts/holster availability.

I seriously wanted the X-ten but there's tons of videos on YouTube with the mags binding up with all brands of ammo - even the Sig 180gr V-crown stuff - seemed like a big gamble for a designated bear gun. I was hopeful they'd resolve it with the comp'd version, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

My feelings on the Xdm are the same as yours, I just didn't like it, but it ran flawlessly.

The only video I saw on the gen 5 was Hickock and he did a follow up video attributing his feed issues to an old/bad mag. Mine has ran perfectly with Underwood and cheap crap for about 500 rounds now.

 

[Bama67]

There isn't much that out penetrates a heavy for caliber 9mm. I couldn't believe the tree trunk my 9mm with 150 gr hard cast blew though.
I feel perfectly comfortable with it in the woods, and I know I am quick and accurate with it. And when I miss, I got 18 rounds total on board lol

 

[cactus Jack 22]

CZ P10 with a small back strap works great for my wifes small hands

 

[JSC2626]

Based on the feedback I’ve decided to pick up a Glock 23. Reasons being:
- general consensus is it’s better to use premium lead hard cast bullets in a smaller caliber I shoot quick and proficiently rather than something I can’t reliability shoot fast and accurate
- .40 being a little more than 9mm makes me feel a little better even though it’s not a traditional “bear caliber” like 10mm and .44 mag
- it will fit all my current holsters and will have no learning curve
- the 10mm’s were either too big on the striker fired side or I needed to spend out of budget in the 1911 side to get the reliability and quality I wanted
- I just couldn’t get behind the revolvers after looking into them more.

It’s not the right choice for everyone but seemed to be the best option for me. I really appreciate all the feedback everyone gave. Hopefully others can read over this thread and get something from it as well.

 

[jimh406]

Look at some of the penetration tests for 9 mm vs 10 mm. You'll likely be surprised that they are nearly identical with hard cast bullets. A 10 is more powerful but also larger diameter.

The Vortex guys showed some of the differences in this video.

 

[HOT ROD]

For some one with small hand take a look at the Glock 48

 

[VA Ridgerunner]

IMO carry something you'll always have handy and can hit with. If that means you are limited to a 9 with the right ammo then so be it. I appreciate that it might cause some anxiety but it might increase your awareness. When we were fishing in Alaska and I had a friends G40 I can't say having a 9mm would have caused any more anxiety when we saw the first bear.

 

[kpk]

Based on the feedback I’ve decided to pick up a Glock 23. Reasons being:
- general consensus is it’s better to use premium lead hard cast bullets in a smaller caliber I shoot quick and proficiently rather than something I can’t reliability shoot fast and accurate
- .40 being a little more than 9mm makes me feel a little better even though it’s not a traditional “bear caliber” like 10mm and .44 mag
- it will fit all my current holsters and will have no learning curve
- the 10mm’s were either too big on the striker fired side or I needed to spend out of budget in the 1911 side to get the reliability and quality I wanted
- I just couldn’t get behind the revolvers after looking into them more.

It’s not the right choice for everyone but seemed to be the best option for me. I really appreciate all the feedback everyone gave. Hopefully others can read over this thread and get something from it as well.

I think you've made the smart choice.