Battle of the 6’s

[Scottyboy]

What about any of these with a 16” bbl? Is anyone besides ruger making a shorter barreled rifle? I know the chop/thread idea for suppressor (which is my use case) but any 6’s in 16….maybe 18” factory offerings? Do not reload personally, but would ask UM to load for me for the right setup

 

[wind gypsy]

What about any of these with a 16” bbl? Is anyone besides ruger making a shorter barreled rifle? I know the chop/thread idea for suppressor (which is my use case) but any 6’s in 16….maybe 18” factory offerings? Do not reload personally, but would ask UM to load for me for the right setup

Lots of 18”ish 6 creedmoors around here. That’s what I’m using for my primary hunting rifle and will use it for 1 day NRL hunter matches as well where power factor doesn’t really matter if not in the factory class. No concerns with reloading creed but there isn’t really much for factory offerings in the short barrels either. Chop/thread is pretty cheap.

 

[General RE LEE]

What about any of these with a 16” bbl? Is anyone besides ruger making a shorter barreled rifle? I know the chop/thread idea for suppressor (which is my use case) but any 6’s in 16….maybe 18” factory offerings? Do not reload personally, but would ask UM to load for me for the right setup

The 6mm ARC was designed to be used with an 18” barrel. 16 and 18” barrel uppers for ARs are common. I’m a bolt action guy but man I’m really digging my 18” barrel 6mm ARC gas gun. It might kick out the bolt actions on many hunts. So much lighter and compact.

 

[ramsdude47]

To go even a step further what cartridge would people recommend for a 10.5-12.5 inch barrel? Max range 300-400 ideally (and not elk).

I’m tempted to permanently attach my least favorite 30 cal can to an SBR but not need a stamp for it.

 

[Formidilosus]

To go even a step further what cartridge would people recommend for a 10.5-12.5 inch barrel? Max range 300-400 ideally (and not elk).

I’m tempted to permanently attach my least favorite 30 cal can to an SBR but not need a stamp for it.

6 ARC will keep good bullets above 1,800fps at or past 400 yards, at 5k DA from 11.5” and longer barrels.

 

[passinggas33]

Thanks for all the feedback guys on the rifle choices. Now to get them and put them all together. Once they are all done up, I’ll get some pics posted for sharing. And hopefully some pics with some field use!!

Finally finished the two rifles. It took me a bit, but finally done. Sons is on top, mine is on bottom. Same stocks. Same scopes. Same suppressors. Only difference is action, barrel, and caliber. But both are really close. Sons ended up being a 6ARC build off the howa mini chassis, and mine is a Tikka 6CM (converted a 243). Both are sitting in stockys stocks and wearing Trijicon Credo HX 2.5-15x42. Yes I spoil my son. And that’s okay. It allows him and I to spend time together, and I won’t put a price tag on that.

Thanks again to all for your input and help on deciding which route to go!

 

[crich]

Finally finished the two rifles. It took me a bit, but finally done. Sons is on top, mine is on bottom. Same stocks. Same scopes. Same suppressors. Only difference is action, barrel, and caliber. But both are really close. Sons ended up being a 6ARC build off the howa mini chassis, and mine is a Tikka 6CM (converted a 243). Both are sitting in stockys stocks and wearing Trijicon Credo HX 2.5-15x42. Yes I spoil my son. And that’s okay. It allows him and I to spend time together, and I won’t put a price tag on that.

Thanks again to all for your input and help on deciding which route to go!

Nice duo for you guys to spend time together. How do they shoot?

 

[passinggas33]

Nice duo for you guys to spend time together. How do they shoot?

Yet to be determined. I’m going to head out this weekend and finally shoot them. Life has been crazy busy with kids sports in the spring, and now that they are over I can breathe again and get to shooting. I’ll give. A report back early next week.

 

[kswaterfowl]

Finally finished the two rifles. It took me a bit, but finally done. Sons is on top, mine is on bottom. Same stocks. Same scopes. Same suppressors. Only difference is action, barrel, and caliber. But both are really close. Sons ended up being a 6ARC build off the howa mini chassis, and mine is a Tikka 6CM (converted a 243). Both are sitting in stockys stocks and wearing Trijicon Credo HX 2.5-15x42. Yes I spoil my son. And that’s okay. It allows him and I to spend time together, and I won’t put a price tag on that.

Thanks again to all for your input and help on deciding which route to go!

Nothing wrong with spoiling your son. I will do the same thing when my boys are old enough to go with me.

 

[Timberline001]

Well my indecisiveness has led me to make the following decision and purchase…

For my wife and kiddos…6.5 ARC in a howa mini and stockys vg2. For under $800, I had to do it.

For me…6CM Tikka in a stockys vg. For 1k, again I had to do it. It would have been irresponsible of me to not do it.

The stocks compliment each other very nicely (one black and one grey). Same optics (Trijicon Credo Hx 2.5-15x42). Wanted them close so my kiddos feel like we are on the same playing field and working together when we are out there. That may sound dumb, but I don’t want them to think that only dad gets the nice stuff.

Anyway, thanks for all of your input. Excited for how these come together!

Best resolution to a what should I get post haha

 

[Timjohnson11]

My new 6CM is nearly done. Ordered a Havak Element but received a Havak PH2. The seller company made it right and gave me a screaming deal on the PH2 for the mistake and to minimize hassle of exchange. I have cut the barrel down to 22.25" (right above end of flutes) and topped it with a Mark 5HD 3.6 x 18 and Scythe - Ti.

Goal is to shot 108 and 109 ELDMs at 2975+. Should be plenty of juice for our high elevations here in Utah.

 

[passinggas33]

Nice duo for you guys to spend time together. How do they shoot?

Got out last night and was able to shoot a box last night. This is what I learned…

The 6ARC shot very nice. Shooting right at 2550 for an average and right around 1 moa. The “Howa barrel break in process” is quite tedious. And I may or may not have followed it exactly . I’m hoping as the barrel gets shot a little more it might tighten up just a bit. But overall very pleased with it. What I did learn though is that velocity will likely limit it to right about 500 yards to maintain the 1800fps velocity.

The 6CM has a small problem. It’s going to have to get it reamed a little more by the gunsmith. The chamber is so tight I could barely get the bolt closed. So even though I was able to shoot it and start getting some information, I want to have it reamed and then get down to truly figuring it out. But even with this small issue, I was right around 2850 on velocity but had wildly big ES and and speeds. But I’m guessing this gun will be limited to about 700 yards.

 

[z987k]

The 6ARC makes a lot of sense over the 6CM in a gas gun.

But in a bolt, it makes a lot more sense to get the creed. So much more brass and even factory ammo available. If you can get by just fine with 6arc velocities, just load it down a tad. It looks like 6cm with a single base temp stable powder is within 50fps of 6arc with a unstable double base with the same bullet. (4350 vs lever revolution) 1ft-lb more recoil since you need to use a bit more of it with the larger case volume.
If something like the howa mini saves you a few ounces on a mountain gun, maybe that sways back to 6 arc.

 

[TimberHunter]

Got out last night and was able to shoot a box last night. This is what I learned…

The 6ARC shot very nice. Shooting right at 2550 for an average and right around 1 moa. The “Howa barrel break in process” is quite tedious. And I may or may not have followed it exactly . I’m hoping as the barrel gets shot a little more it might tighten up just a bit. But overall very pleased with it. What I did learn though is that velocity will likely limit it to right about 500 yards to maintain the 1800fps velocity.

The 6CM has a small problem. It’s going to have to get it reamed a little more by the gunsmith. The chamber is so tight I could barely get the bolt closed. So even though I was able to shoot it and start getting some information, I want to have it reamed and then get down to truly figuring it out. But even with this small issue, I was right around 2850 on velocity but had wildly big ES and and speeds. But I’m guessing this gun will be limited to about 700 yards.

I believe that’s a 20” on the Howa, how long on the 6cm?


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[passinggas33]

I believe that’s a 20” on the Howa, how long on the 6cm?


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That is correct on the Howa. The 6CM is a 21” barrel. Though I may have the Smith cut it down to 20”.

 

[wind gypsy]

The 6ARC makes a lot of sense over the 6CM in a gas gun.

But in a bolt, it makes a lot more sense to get the creed. So much more brass and even factory ammo available. If you can get by just fine with 6arc velocities, just load it down a tad. It looks like 6cm with a single base temp stable powder is within 50fps of 6arc with a unstable double base with the same bullet. (4350 vs lever revolution) 1ft-lb more recoil since you need to use a bit more of it with the larger case volume.
If something like the howa mini saves you a few ounces on a mountain gun, maybe that sways back to 6 arc.

Just to clarify, hornady’s apples to apples max load data shows a 6 creed with h4350 and a 108 eld outrunning a 6 arc with lever and a 108 by 200 fps. Maybe you’re saying you could load the creed 150 fps slower though?

 

[Arithson]

I started with intentions of having a prs/hunting do all gun. I really like to run H1000 even though you end up with some compressed loads. I have also run N165. H1000 is temp stable, like less than .5fps/degree. Usually around .2fps/degree in the 243Ackley. N165 burns cleaner and cleans easier but is not as temp stable. It is around 1.5-1.75 fps/degree.

I have run 8 twist and 7.5 twist barrels. I have shied away from 7 twist barrels because of bullet failures. They claim over 300k rpm is the danger zone and I have seen it with other calibers. I have noticed that most button barrels are slower than specified, so if I ever go back from cut rifled to button rifled it will be a "7 twist".

Those choices are because I can easily run 105s at 3150-3200 (I have accidentally been above 3200 twice with no pressure signs and accuracy when using old loads in new barrels) and 115s from 3000-3100fps in a 26" barrel and 115s to 3150fps in a 28" barrel. I have kept everything under the 3200fps speed limit for prs, but I think you could easily top that with other powders. My current loads are compressed, and I use a 5" drop tube to fit them in the case. It breaks a lot of reloading "rules", but accuracy has been great and the 28" barrel with 115 dtacs has won me a fair amount of money and prize table walks in high winds. It seems like the sd/es is never that good, but the guns shoot at distance. With good lots of bullets I have shot multiple 10 shot groups under 4" at 776 yards. Usually bullets that good would be under .3" for 5 shots at 100 yards. Bad bullets account for more bad shooting than anyone likes to admit and have a tendency to make things pretty mediocre. About .5" for 5 shots at 100 and 6-8" for 10 at 776 yards. It is painfully obvious when going from an insanely good lot to a below average lot in the middle of a barrel.

I have had great barrel life by cleaning regularly (around every 200 rounds) with abrasives (jb bore paste, thoroclean, and iosso) and a bore scope back to bare steel. I have had really weird, eratic things happen when going more than 200 rounds between cleaning. Most barrels go 2300-2500 rounds shooting 3/4 moa groups for 5 shots at distance. I usually have to change the load once during the barrel to get that (seat bullet closer to worn lands and add powder). The loads have got to be pretty low pressure. There have been several rain matches where everything was drenched and dirty and my gun ran like a sewing machine. Guys running "conservative" loads with 6 br and variants were having sticky bolt and guys with hot loads were blowing primers and locking up actions.

I have shot Hornady 105 bthp and 105 amax and 115 dtacs for the most part. Dtacs just seem to shoot. Some are better than others, but they went through a phase where they were inconsistent in bc from lot to lot. I haven't seen that since I started shooting the NR DTACs, but have not shot as many either. I have 6 Dashers that I also shoot for prs, and that dropped the round count on the 243AI. I mostly use the 243AI for matches where it will be really windy or there are lot of points to gain/lose at 1000+ yards.

For hunting, I use the 105 bthp and amax, and also bought some of the 106 tap but haven't had a chance to load them yet. I find I have to sort them to get 3/4 moa ten shot groups. I don't hunt anything big, just whitetails and coyotes. Those bullets work really well for those critters. I also ran 105s in cold weather matches when I ran 8 twist barrels. 115 dtacs did some funky stuff in the cold out of my first 8 twist button rifled barrel.

For brass I have run Winchester and Peterson. With the loads I run, I think the brass will last forever. I have some Winchester brass with over 30 firings. The pockets are just starting to get loose.

I have only had the Peterson brass for the last 2 barrels. I think most of it has around 8 or 10 firings on it. The pockets are as tight as new brass. I think Lapua would be good to. It is all I have used for 6 Dasher and 6BRA and it shoots great and lasts forever.

I will say, the 3 Bs are a real thing. I went from shooting Criterion Savage prefits and Winchester brass to Bartlein cut by a top smith and Peterson brass all at the same time. My average 5 shot group size at 100 yards was cut in half and every single load, until I was over pressure, shot insanely good. I have thought about trying Bergers just to see if a 243AI will shoot as small as a 6 Dasher, but the DTAC has a lot better bc and is a lot cheaper. Since I only shoot my 243AI match gun in the worst winds, I doubt I will notice the difference between a 3/4 moa gun or a 1/2 or 3/8 moa gun.

I think you could get top speed with R17, R25, R26, N500 series, maybe 6.5 Staball, maybe h100v. I did have some 85 grain Speers going 3500+fps for a little while with R17. I think that is how some of the pockets got loose on the Winchester brass. I quit shooting that as the accuracy wasn't great and there wasn't much of an advantage for calling coyotes over the 105s.

I love cases with 40 degree shoulders and very little taper. I think you could just about go forever without having to trim them, especially with the low pressures I'm running in the 243AI.

I can't think of much else. It's just another cartridge. A lot of the stuff above is stuff I apply to most cartridges. It's just that 243AI was the first cartridge I shot through multiple barrels on, so there was a lot of learning and discovering when shooting it. A lot of the stuff I have learned and tried came from a discussion of the 6 Comp Match on accurateshooter forum, another 243 improved.

Thanks for taking the time to write this! I’ve been on the fence between 243 Ai and 6 creed for a few months and was going to post my own thread but after reading this I think my mind is made up. Wanting to shoot 115 Nose Rings out of 24” tube as a hunting gun and then build a 26-30” tube as a comp gun. Thanks again!

 

[Wrench]

Got out last night and was able to shoot a box last night. This is what I learned…

The 6ARC shot very nice. Shooting right at 2550 for an average and right around 1 moa. The “Howa barrel break in process” is quite tedious. And I may or may not have followed it exactly . I’m hoping as the barrel gets shot a little more it might tighten up just a bit. But overall very pleased with it. What I did learn though is that velocity will likely limit it to right about 500 yards to maintain the 1800fps velocity.

The 6CM has a small problem. It’s going to have to get it reamed a little more by the gunsmith. The chamber is so tight I could barely get the bolt closed. So even though I was able to shoot it and start getting some information, I want to have it reamed and then get down to truly figuring it out. But even with this small issue, I was right around 2850 on velocity but had wildly big ES and and speeds. But I’m guessing this gun will be limited to about 700 yards.

How did you determine it was short on headspace. There are a couple other places that can cause that symptom....bolt to barrel clearance and front action screw.

 

[passinggas33]

How did you determine it was short on headspace. There are a couple other places that can cause that symptom....bolt to barrel clearance and front action screw.

Actually learned it was just barely underreamed. A couple of quick turns and it was and has been great.