Battle of the 6’s

[ddowning]

Sub 100 yard exit from 6CM pushing 115dtacs almost 3000fps.

I’m all in on the 6CM for an all purpose rig


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Any coyote kills with 115 dtacs at 400+? I want to shoot the 115 for everything as they shoot great for a comp bullet. I'm just not convinced they'll cause enough damage on coyotes and small whitetail at lower impact velocities.

 

[Formidilosus]

Any coyote kills with 115 dtacs at 400+? I want to shoot the 115 for everything as they shoot great for a comp bullet. I'm just not convinced they'll cause enough damage on coyotes and small whitetail at lower impact velocities.

They won’t. Nor I should state it as/ you will have a significant amount of bullet diameter wounds in coyotes. Deer have been fine.

 

[DoveBlaster]

Any coyote kills with 115 dtacs at 400+? I want to shoot the 115 for everything as they shoot great for a comp bullet. I'm just not convinced they'll cause enough damage on coyotes and small whitetail at lower impact velocities.

No coyote kills at any significant distance but I shot a whitetail buck at 440 and a mule deer buck at 520. Both ended up in my freezer. I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot a coyote at distance even though the bullet might not be best suited for that application.


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[sierracharlie338]

No coyote kills at any significant distance but I shot a whitetail buck at 440 and a mule deer buck at 520. Both ended up in my freezer. I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot a coyote at distance even though the bullet might not be best suited for that application.


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And unless you are keeping pelts, who cares? Schwack'em

 

[ddowning]

And unless you are keeping pelts, who cares? Schwack'em

Sounds like they pencil through coyotes=runners.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Sounds like they pencil through coyotes=runners.

Again, if you are looking to save pelts, who cares.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

My current match rifle is a 6 creed, I'm sending 115 dtacs at 2900 using Peterson SRP brass, you literally can't kill the brass with that load.
I'm getting fantastic first round hits at 1k but when I burn it out I'll go 6 GT or BRA simply for the barrel life.
For hunting and occasional matches I'd say 6 creed all the way, there's zero reason to mess with an ARC unless you're running a gas gun.

 

[Matt5266]

6 Creedmoor

 

[General RE LEE]

I jumped on the 6 ARC train and one range trip found the max load of Leverevolution per Hornady Manual with 108 ELDM to be .7 MOA at 2580 FPS. That’s good deer medicine out to 500 yards.

Got an 18” barrel upper from Grendel Hunter and dropped in a Velocity trigger. Super easy upgrade to an old Bushmaster XM15 that’s been sitting in the safe.

 

[gabenzeke]

Out of curiosity what is the fastest 6 mm with a short action and standard bolt face?

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[khuber84]

Out of curiosity what is the fastest 6 mm with a short action and standard bolt face?

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243 ackley improved likely. Saami 243 chamber with heavies is similar capacity to saami 6cm with heavies. Plus most 243s don't have enough twist for heavier bullets.

6s w/ 473 bolt face in order of case capacity:
240 wby(not short action)
243ai
243
6slr
6cm
6xc
6x47
6gt
6dasher
6brx
6bra
6br

 

[ddowning]

Don't forget the 6 Crusader (6mm remington improved with short throat to fit mag length)

 

[khuber84]

Don't forget the 6 Crusader (6mm remington improved with short throat to fit mag length)

Oh there's a lot of wildcats! I was just trying to stick to saami, or formed from readily available quality brass.

 

[Jake Leibke]

Anyone have any experience with the 243 AI? Looking at putting one together


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[wind gypsy]

243 ackley improved likely. Saami 243 chamber with heavies is similar capacity to saami 6cm with heavies. Plus most 243s don't have enough twist for heavier bullets.

6s w/ 473 bolt face in order of case capacity:
240 wby(not short action)
243ai
243
6slr
6cm
6xc
6x47
6gt
6dasher
6brx
6bra
6br

I'd think a guy could short throat a 6x284 and make it work in a short action if they made straight 284s work?

 

[ddowning]

Anyone have any experience with the 243 AI? Looking at putting one together


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I have 5 or 6 barrels experience with 243AI and 105-115 grain bullets. If you want to run varmint bullets, I have not played with that.

 

[Jake Leibke]

I have 5 or 6 barrels experience with 243AI and 105-115 grain bullets. If you want to run varmint bullets, I have not played with that.

Tell me more. Looking at the 105 plus or minus weight range.


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[B23]

I'd think a guy could short throat a 6x284 and make it work in a short action if they made straight 284s work?

If it's on a Rem 700 or clone a SA works fine just need to use a extended mag box like the 3.00 or better yet the 3.100 Baney box so there's enough OAL for the heavies.

My 6-284 is built on a Rem 700 SA but mine is a 12tw so I only shoot the middle weight bullets and running out of mag length isn't a concern.

 

[ddowning]

Tell me more. Looking at the 105 plus or minus weight range.


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I started with intentions of having a prs/hunting do all gun. I really like to run H1000 even though you end up with some compressed loads. I have also run N165. H1000 is temp stable, like less than .5fps/degree. Usually around .2fps/degree in the 243Ackley. N165 burns cleaner and cleans easier but is not as temp stable. It is around 1.5-1.75 fps/degree.

I have run 8 twist and 7.5 twist barrels. I have shied away from 7 twist barrels because of bullet failures. They claim over 300k rpm is the danger zone and I have seen it with other calibers. I have noticed that most button barrels are slower than specified, so if I ever go back from cut rifled to button rifled it will be a "7 twist".

Those choices are because I can easily run 105s at 3150-3200 (I have accidentally been above 3200 twice with no pressure signs and accuracy when using old loads in new barrels) and 115s from 3000-3100fps in a 26" barrel and 115s to 3150fps in a 28" barrel. I have kept everything under the 3200fps speed limit for prs, but I think you could easily top that with other powders. My current loads are compressed, and I use a 5" drop tube to fit them in the case. It breaks a lot of reloading "rules", but accuracy has been great and the 28" barrel with 115 dtacs has won me a fair amount of money and prize table walks in high winds. It seems like the sd/es is never that good, but the guns shoot at distance. With good lots of bullets I have shot multiple 10 shot groups under 4" at 776 yards. Usually bullets that good would be under .3" for 5 shots at 100 yards. Bad bullets account for more bad shooting than anyone likes to admit and have a tendency to make things pretty mediocre. About .5" for 5 shots at 100 and 6-8" for 10 at 776 yards. It is painfully obvious when going from an insanely good lot to a below average lot in the middle of a barrel.

I have had great barrel life by cleaning regularly (around every 200 rounds) with abrasives (jb bore paste, thoroclean, and iosso) and a bore scope back to bare steel. I have had really weird, eratic things happen when going more than 200 rounds between cleaning. Most barrels go 2300-2500 rounds shooting 3/4 moa groups for 5 shots at distance. I usually have to change the load once during the barrel to get that (seat bullet closer to worn lands and add powder). The loads have got to be pretty low pressure. There have been several rain matches where everything was drenched and dirty and my gun ran like a sewing machine. Guys running "conservative" loads with 6 br and variants were having sticky bolt and guys with hot loads were blowing primers and locking up actions.

I have shot Hornady 105 bthp and 105 amax and 115 dtacs for the most part. Dtacs just seem to shoot. Some are better than others, but they went through a phase where they were inconsistent in bc from lot to lot. I haven't seen that since I started shooting the NR DTACs, but have not shot as many either. I have 6 Dashers that I also shoot for prs, and that dropped the round count on the 243AI. I mostly use the 243AI for matches where it will be really windy or there are lot of points to gain/lose at 1000+ yards.

For hunting, I use the 105 bthp and amax, and also bought some of the 106 tap but haven't had a chance to load them yet. I find I have to sort them to get 3/4 moa ten shot groups. I don't hunt anything big, just whitetails and coyotes. Those bullets work really well for those critters. I also ran 105s in cold weather matches when I ran 8 twist barrels. 115 dtacs did some funky stuff in the cold out of my first 8 twist button rifled barrel.

For brass I have run Winchester and Peterson. With the loads I run, I think the brass will last forever. I have some Winchester brass with over 30 firings. The pockets are just starting to get loose.

I have only had the Peterson brass for the last 2 barrels. I think most of it has around 8 or 10 firings on it. The pockets are as tight as new brass. I think Lapua would be good to. It is all I have used for 6 Dasher and 6BRA and it shoots great and lasts forever.

I will say, the 3 Bs are a real thing. I went from shooting Criterion Savage prefits and Winchester brass to Bartlein cut by a top smith and Peterson brass all at the same time. My average 5 shot group size at 100 yards was cut in half and every single load, until I was over pressure, shot insanely good. I have thought about trying Bergers just to see if a 243AI will shoot as small as a 6 Dasher, but the DTAC has a lot better bc and is a lot cheaper. Since I only shoot my 243AI match gun in the worst winds, I doubt I will notice the difference between a 3/4 moa gun or a 1/2 or 3/8 moa gun.

I think you could get top speed with R17, R25, R26, N500 series, maybe 6.5 Staball, maybe h100v. I did have some 85 grain Speers going 3500+fps for a little while with R17. I think that is how some of the pockets got loose on the Winchester brass. I quit shooting that as the accuracy wasn't great and there wasn't much of an advantage for calling coyotes over the 105s.

I love cases with 40 degree shoulders and very little taper. I think you could just about go forever without having to trim them, especially with the low pressures I'm running in the 243AI.

I can't think of much else. It's just another cartridge. A lot of the stuff above is stuff I apply to most cartridges. It's just that 243AI was the first cartridge I shot through multiple barrels on, so there was a lot of learning and discovering when shooting it. A lot of the stuff I have learned and tried came from a discussion of the 6 Comp Match on accurateshooter forum, another 243 improved.

 

[Jake Leibke]

I started with intentions of having a prs/hunting do all gun. I really like to run H1000 even though you end up with some compressed loads. I have also run N165. H1000 is temp stable, like less than .5fps/degree. Usually around .2fps/degree in the 243Ackley. N165 burns cleaner and cleans easier but is not as temp stable. It is around 1.5-1.75 fps/degree.

I have run 8 twist and 7.5 twist barrels. I have shied away from 7 twist barrels because of bullet failures. They claim over 300k rpm is the danger zone and I have seen it with other calibers. I have noticed that most button barrels are slower than specified, so if I ever go back from cut rifled to button rifled it will be a "7 twist".

Those choices are because I can easily run 105s at 3150-3200 (I have accidentally been above 3200 twice with no pressure signs and accuracy when using old loads in new barrels) and 115s from 3000-3100fps in a 26" barrel and 115s to 3150fps in a 28" barrel. I have kept everything under the 3200fps speed limit for prs, but I think you could easily top that with other powders. My current loads are compressed, and I use a 5" drop tube to fit them in the case. It breaks a lot of reloading "rules", but accuracy has been great and the 28" barrel with 115 dtacs has won me a fair amount of money and prize table walks in high winds. It seems like the sd/es is never that good, but the guns shoot at distance. With good lots of bullets I have shot multiple 10 shot groups under 4" at 776 yards. Usually bullets that good would be under .3" for 5 shots at 100 yards. Bad bullets account for more bad shooting than anyone likes to admit and have a tendency to make things pretty mediocre. About .5" for 5 shots at 100 and 6-8" for 10 at 776 yards. It is painfully obvious when going from an insanely good lot to a below average lot in the middle of a barrel.

I have had great barrel life by cleaning regularly (around every 200 rounds) with abrasives (jb bore paste, thoroclean, and iosso) and a bore scope back to bare steel. I have had really weird, eratic things happen when going more than 200 rounds between cleaning. Most barrels go 2300-2500 rounds shooting 3/4 moa groups for 5 shots at distance. I usually have to change the load once during the barrel to get that (seat bullet closer to worn lands and add powder). The loads have got to be pretty low pressure. There have been several rain matches where everything was drenched and dirty and my gun ran like a sewing machine. Guys running "conservative" loads with 6 br and variants were having sticky bolt and guys with hot loads were blowing primers and locking up actions.

I have shot Hornady 105 bthp and 105 amax and 115 dtacs for the most part. Dtacs just seem to shoot. Some are better than others, but they went through a phase where they were inconsistent in bc from lot to lot. I haven't seen that since I started shooting the NR DTACs, but have not shot as many either. I have 6 Dashers that I also shoot for prs, and that dropped the round count on the 243AI. I mostly use the 243AI for matches where it will be really windy or there are lot of points to gain/lose at 1000+ yards.

For hunting, I use the 105 bthp and amax, and also bought some of the 106 tap but haven't had a chance to load them yet. I find I have to sort them to get 3/4 moa ten shot groups. I don't hunt anything big, just whitetails and coyotes. Those bullets work really well for those critters. I also ran 105s in cold weather matches when I ran 8 twist barrels. 115 dtacs did some funky stuff in the cold out of my first 8 twist button rifled barrel.

For brass I have run Winchester and Peterson. With the loads I run, I think the brass will last forever. I have some Winchester brass with over 30 firings. The pockets are just starting to get loose.

I have only had the Peterson brass for the last 2 barrels. I think most of it has around 8 or 10 firings on it. The pockets are as tight as new brass. I think Lapua would be good to. It is all I have used for 6 Dasher and 6BRA and it shoots great and lasts forever.

I will say, the 3 Bs are a real thing. I went from shooting Criterion Savage prefits and Winchester brass to Bartlein cut by a top smith and Peterson brass all at the same time. My average 5 shot group size at 100 yards was cut in half and every single load, until I was over pressure, shot insanely good. I have thought about trying Bergers just to see if a 243AI will shoot as small as a 6 Dasher, but the DTAC has a lot better bc and is a lot cheaper. Since I only shoot my 243AI match gun in the worst winds, I doubt I will notice the difference between a 3/4 moa gun or a 1/2 or 3/8 moa gun.

I think you could get top speed with R17, R25, R26, N500 series, maybe 6.5 Staball, maybe h100v. I did have some 85 grain Speers going 3500+fps for a little while with R17. I think that is how some of the pockets got loose on the Winchester brass. I quit shooting that as the accuracy wasn't great and there wasn't much of an advantage for calling coyotes over the 105s.

I love cases with 40 degree shoulders and very little taper. I think you could just about go forever without having to trim them, especially with the low pressures I'm running in the 243AI.

I can't think of much else. It's just another cartridge. A lot of the stuff above is stuff I apply to most cartridges. It's just that 243AI was the first cartridge I shot through multiple barrels on, so there was a lot of learning and discovering when shooting it. A lot of the stuff I have learned and tried came from a discussion of the 6 Comp Match on accurateshooter forum, another 243 improved.

Lot of good info there. Thanks!


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