Barrel threading….again.

[goathunter]

Sounds like, 9/16" is the right thread size for a tikka sporter barrel cut down to 20"? And then you could put an adapter to get to 5/8". BUT, the nomad ti has a screw in insert and you can get it in 9/16-24. Could you just use that and direct thread on? Or is straight 9/16" not enough shoulder? I am looking at doing this on a 30 caliber.

 

[wind gypsy]

This is an easy problem to solve.

View attachment 498874

Is there any reason this is better than just turning to a smaller contour with belled end? I don't know anything about machining but it seems like this would be more work and more complex.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Is there any reason this is better than just turning to a smaller contour with belled end? I don't know anything about machining but it seems like this would be more work and more complex.

It'll be stiffer. And more $. And look cooler.

 

[Lawnboi]

Sounds like, 9/16" is the right thread size for a tikka sporter barrel cut down to 20"? And then you could put an adapter to get to 5/8". BUT, the nomad ti has a screw in insert and you can get it in 9/16-24. Could you just use that and direct thread on? Or is straight 9/16" not enough shoulder? I am looking at doing this on a 30 caliber.

Following recommendations by most smiths and suppressor companies, you won’t get 9/16 from a lite barrel at 20”. 1/2” you can do.

 

[goathunter]

Following recommendations by most smiths and suppressor companies, you won’t get 9/16 from a lite barrel at 20”. 1/2” you can do.

Ok, same question for 1/2" then. You can get a 1/2"-28 insert for the nomad-ti. Could I get a tikka lite cut to 20", threaded 1/2"-28 and direct thread with this nomad insert, or is there not enough shoulder and I'd need a 5/8" adapter with their 5/8" insert?

 

[wind gypsy]

It'll be stiffer. And more $. And look cooler.

And heavier?

[edit: i guess just that particular one looks heavy still for a hunting rifle. I could see that for 2 barrels of the same weight, a fluted one likely being stiffer. Also going to heat up at different rates. I sure cant say conclusively that one is better than the other but ive had poor luck with aggressively fluted sporter barrels and had reputable smiths say they cant stand behind accuracy of them even on a cut rifled bartlein. For a lightweight barrel (little over 3#s or less), gimme a small contour with belled end].

 

[Lawnboi]

Ok, same question for 1/2" then. You can get a 1/2"-28 insert for the nomad-ti. Could I get a tikka lite cut to 20", threaded 1/2"-28 and direct thread with this nomad insert, or is there not enough shoulder and I'd need a 5/8" adapter with their 5/8" insert?

If you can screw on a 1/2” end cap on your suppressor I’d screw that on direct.

1/2” may not be recommended depending on your bore but many do it with 30 cal without problems.

 

[goathunter]

If you can screw on a 1/2” end cap on your suppressor I’d screw that on direct.

1/2” may not be recommended depending on your bore but many do it with 30 cal without problems.

What a hassle figuring this stuff out. If Tikka would sell 30 cals (besides 308) with factory 20" barrels threaded to 5/8x24 they'd sell like hot cakes.

 

[wind gypsy]

What a hassle figuring this stuff out. If Tikka would sell 30 cals (besides 308) with factory 20" barrels threaded to 5/8x24 they'd sell like hot cakes.

Would they though? Desirable to many of us but the avg guy picking a mid-priced rifle off the shelf at scheels/Cabelas probably isn't putting a can or brake on it. It does seem to be coming more and more common though.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

And heavier?

[edit: i guess just that particular one looks heavy still for a hunting rifle. I could see that for 2 barrels of the same weight, a fluted one likely being stiffer. Also going to heat up at different rates. I sure cant say conclusively that one is better than the other but ive had poor luck with aggressively fluted sporter barrels and had reputable smiths say they cant stand behind accuracy of them even on a cut rifled bartlein. For a lightweight barrel (little over 3#s or less), gimme a small contour with belled end].

well, heavier and stiffer are both relative terms, so let me be a bit more precise.

ultra-light barrel - lightest, most flexible
heavily fluted barrel - medium weight, medium stiffness
carbon wrapped - heavier than max fluting option, lighter than solid steel of same diameter. Stiffer than an ultra-light steel barrel, can't say anything definitive otherwise.
heavy countour barrel - heaviest, stiffest

I can't speak to the accuracy - i've never shot a heavily fluted barrel. I imagine like most things machining related - the skill and heat management of the cuts matters a lot in the final outcome. I assume LRI has it figured out, they're pretty well regarded, but I don't know.

 

[LRI_Chad]

Is there any reason this is better than just turning to a smaller contour with belled end? I don't know anything about machining but it seems like this would be more work and more complex.

If you are "white sheeting" the build, ordering the barrel however you want is always the best policy. We hang north of a hundred sticks a month. I'd go on a limb and say 95% of them things have threads on the muzzle.
Part two is the walk-in/mail-in threading service we have. That's easily 50+ a month as it's a "while you wait" if you are a walk-in.

Where I'm going with this is that if you want to order a barrel with a unique contour, most companies will do it for you, but you're going to wait. With some, you may very well be in hospice by the time you get it. Threading a barrel after it has already been installed is far more common. A shoulder provides a means of loading up the threaded joint, and it helps to ensure the device registers square so that the hole down the middle of the brake/suppressor is coradial to the hole down the barrel. How you get there boils down to what you are willing to pay/wait for.

The bigger cardinal rule I adhere to is the wall thickness between the groove dia of the barrel and the root of the muzzle threads. .100" or more is my standard, as going below this can result in a barrel crown that flares or "bell mouths" over time. -Especially on a shorter barrel in a magnum cartridge. The last thing an accurate rifle wants is a crown that behaves like a musketoon.

C.

 

[wind gypsy]

If you are "white sheeting" the build, ordering the barrel however you want is always the best policy. We hang north of a hundred sticks a month. I'd go on a limb and say 95% of them things have threads on the muzzle.
Part two is the walk-in/mail-in threading service we have. That's easily 50+ a month as it's a "while you wait" if you are a walk-in.

Where I'm going with this is that if you want to order a barrel with a unique contour, most companies will do it for you, but you're going to wait. With some, you may very well be in hospice by the time you get it. Threading a barrel after it has already been installed is far more common. A shoulder provides a means of loading up the threaded joint, and it helps to ensure the device registers square so that the hole down the middle of the brake/suppressor is coradial to the hole down the barrel. How you get there boils down to what you are willing to pay/wait for.

The bigger cardinal rule I adhere to is the wall thickness between the groove dia of the barrel and the root of the muzzle threads. .100" or more is my standard, as going below this can result in a barrel crown that flares or "bell mouths" over time. -Especially on a shorter barrel in a magnum cartridge. The last thing an accurate rifle wants is a crown that behaves like a musketoon.

C.

Thanks Chad, I understand your (and others) minimum requirements for threads and tend to try to error beyond them if possible. I understand a custom contour from a barrel manufacturer likely takes a while but there are typically heavier contoured blanks available on the shelf in common bore diameter / twist combos.

My question was when someone buys an off the shelf heavy contour blank to get the appropriate muzzle diameter but still wants to reduce weight - Is there a benefit of aggressive/elaborate fluting over just turning it down to a smaller contour with a bell on the end to accommodate desired muzzle thread diameter?

 

[Lawnboi]

Thanks Chad, I understand your (and others) minimum requirements for threads and frankly tend to try to error beyond them if possible. I understand a custom contour from a barrel manufacturer likely takes a while but there are typically heavier contoured blanks available on the shelf in common bore diameter / twist combos.

My question was when someone buys an off the shelf heavy contour blank to get the appropriate muzzle diameter but still wants to reduce weight - Is there a benefit of aggressive/elaborate fluting over just turning it down to a smaller contour with a bell on the end to accommodate desired muzzle thread diameter?

@LRI_Chad

This would be a service I’d be interested in as well.

 

[LRI_Chad]

Thanks Chad, I understand your (and others) minimum requirements for threads and tend to try to error beyond them if possible. I understand a custom contour from a barrel manufacturer likely takes a while but there are typically heavier contoured blanks available on the shelf in common bore diameter / twist combos.

My question was when someone buys an off the shelf heavy contour blank to get the appropriate muzzle diameter but still wants to reduce weight - Is there a benefit of aggressive/elaborate fluting over just turning it down to a smaller contour with a bell on the end to accommodate desired muzzle thread diameter?

Worms in a can.....you just opened it. Lol.

First, you are not making something stronger or stiffer anytime you remove material from it. I look at it like this:

Example #1: If I take a #1 contour "spaghetti barrel" and wave a magic wand over it to grow a series of rib features that are #3 contour along the profile, did I make that barrel stiffer than what it was?

I would say yes.

Example #2" If I have a #3 contour and I flute the snot out of it with the root of the flutes going to a #1 contour, did I do the same thing?

I would say no.

Half full, half-empty type argument, but it does carry relevance because how you got there matters.

With your particular question:

If the barrel were ordered in a contour that fits the barrel channel in the stock appropriately, I would argue fluting is the go-to means of reducing weight to avoid ending up with a silly-looking rifle. In my shop, we are pretty fearless when it comes to stock work, and reworking a barrel channel is something we often do. It has its share of cascading effects, though. It will require filling the channel, machine work, and a paint job, easily surpassing what it takes to put "wrinkles" on a barrel.

If you are looking to stick with what you have and take the maximum weight off, then this will do it.

LRI "Pattern X" barrel fluting:

Take a Proof Carbon in Sendero and ours and lay them side by side. The exterior contour is very close to being identical, but we beat the weight by a few ounces. This was a project I got involved with when the Remington Custom Shop was still operational. To the best we could find, it was the lightest rifle at the show that year (2019 or 2020, I forget now). Something around 4 lbs and a few ounces. What was nice was that the finished rifle didn't look like a butchered mess with a bathroom sponge for a recoil pad. It still retained all the relevant features people have come to expect.



The look of it almost immediately goes down a "wabbit hoe discussion" about harmonics, whip, stiffness, off-call shots, and blah, blah, blah. . .

I can't speak for any of that. What I can say is we've done a mess of them now for over three years, and people don't seem to have issues. If they are, I'm not hearing about it.

Some examples:

Longrifles, Inc.

Pattern X fluting on an M700. Barrel started at: 6lbs/2oz. Finished at: 4lbs/4oz. 30 ounces or 1.88lbs removed.

www.facebook.com

Longrifles, Inc.

1lb, 4oz outa this slug! LRI Pattern X.

www.facebook.com

Longrifles, Inc.

Final Assembly

www.facebook.com

 

[wind gypsy]

@LRI_Chad would you or do you do recontours with the bell at muzzle for threads?

 

[LRI_Chad]

@LRI_Chad would you or do you do recontours with the bell at muzzle for threads?

We can. It'd be around $200-ish.

 

[BBob]

We can. It'd be around $200-ish.

I've got two to send you. One has been sitting here awhile waiting for me to send it off for another Pattern X and we'll try the other as a re-contour.

Cha ching! You just got paid for your time on the forum

 

[fwafwow]

@LRI_Chad would you or do you do recontours with the bell at muzzle for threads?

Way off topic - but every time I see one of your posts I mean to ask you, have you caught any deers lately?

 

[LRI_Chad]

I've got two to send you. One has been sitting here awhile waiting for me to send it off for another Pattern X and we'll try the other as a re-contour.

Cha ching! You just got paid for your time on the forum

Lol. I'm making a revised version of the M249 bolt carrier. There are 75 different tool path operations for one part that I translate to 4 different vises. A regeneration after an edit takes a few minutes, so I stick my nose in the forum while I wait.

These delete the relief cuts for the stupid 30 round magazine adaptability thing. (much less likely to malfunction this way)

Fun chit.

 

[Smenning]

9/16 x 24 on T3 Lite 300WSM Smith had no concerns with removing to much material.