Barrel break in, does it matter?

[Lawnboi]

This one has more than 8k rounds without cleaning or a single patch being
through it-
View attachment 332526

View attachment 332527
View attachment 332528




This one was at a lot more than the one above…. Oh yeah- it’s a Bartlein….
View attachment 332533

View attachment 332536


I have groups and pictures with fast 6mm’s with 1200 rounds without cleaning, 6.5’s with 1500+, 300 mags with 1500-2,000 rounds, 338’s, etc, etc. Either I and my buddies receive 100% of barrels that shoot without ever being cleaned, or the whole thing for practical shooting is mostly a myth.

Im constantly fighting the urge to just not clean. There’s not many that say never to though. I don’t know, my 223 went 700 rounds without a patch and still shot acceptably. Specifically in competition circles you always hear of carbon rings.

And 8k rounds on that barrel…. Man I need more bullets. I just got a backup barrel in case it goes, but I’m a long ways from 8k

 

[Formidilosus]

Im constantly fighting the urge to just not clean. There’s not many that say never to though. I don’t know, my 223 went 700 rounds without a patch and still shot acceptably. Specifically in competition circles you always hear of carbon rings.

Yep, it’s always- “so and so said”, or when someone performs portly it’s the dreaded “carbon ring”, etc. Literally no one I shoot with ever cleans- none of us even own a cleaning rod. I have not put a patch down a bore since at least 2010. I will personally shoot between 30 and 40,000 rounds a year.

And 8k rounds on that barrel…. Man I need more bullets. I just got a backup barrel in case it goes, but I’m a long ways from 8k

Ha. The bottom one was somewhere north of 14-15,000 rounds when it was used to win its last match. The only thing that has ever been in the barrel are bullets.

Here’s a T3 223 being rezeroed after switching suppressors. It too is over 15,000 rounds without cleaning, bottom ten first, then adjusted, top three after the adjustment for the internet hero’s. That’s a 1” orange dot at 100 yards.




Where’s the carbon ring? Actually, who gives a shit. I could absolutely care less what my bore looks like, or how much wear the throat has, or how long it takes to get the carbon out, or anything else that has nothing to do with a static zero and hitting targets. Shaen is spinning up a 6XC barrel as we speak. That too will never be cleaned. Somehow…. I’m betting that it matches or exceeds the “average” barrel life that people say they get. As I said though, maybe it’s all a fluke.

 

[Stu]

Tikka factory 223. I’m not suggesting cleaning is out, but this is a group from a known load after well over 3k rounds without any cleaning. It’s shooting this load as good or better than when I first tried it which was within the barrel’s first 300 rounds

 

[Formidilosus]

Here’s a relatively new rifle, only has a few hundred rounds on it. The pics were for people talking about how sporter barrels walk/group poorly when they get hot

First 3-



Then two more on top



Then 5 more as fast as could be shot-





My guess is it’ll go 2,500-3,000 rounds without ever being cleaned, and no donut.

 

[Formidilosus]

Tikka factory 223. I’m not suggesting cleaning is out, but this is a group from a known load after well over 3k rounds without any cleaning. It’s shooting this load as good or better than when I first tried it which was within the barrel’s first 300 rounds

That’s what I’m talking about. Most people that “only clean when it needs it” are just looking for a reason or excuse to clean.

People should take one (1) rifle and shoot the barrel out without ever cleaning it and see what happens.

 

[DangerRanger]

@Frank Green any opinions? Y’all probably go through as many test barrels as anyone on the planet I assume

 

[DangerRanger]

Or conversely I guess OP can just read the previous thread Frank already covered pretty much all this on his profile posts.

 

[HighUintas]

This one has more than 8k rounds without cleaning or a single patch being
through it-
View attachment 332526

View attachment 332527
View attachment 332528




This one was at a lot more than the one above…. Oh yeah- it’s a Bartlein….
View attachment 332533

View attachment 332536


I have groups and pictures with fast 6mm’s with 1200 rounds without cleaning, 6.5’s with 1500+, 300 mags with 1500-2,000 rounds, 338’s, etc, etc. Either I and my buddies receive 100% of barrels that shoot without ever being cleaned, or the whole thing for practical shooting is mostly a myth.

I knew you'd show up! How about if your barrel turns into a copper mine after 30 rounds or you switch bullets? And don't you get to use special unicorn powder that's not available to anyone else that allows such bore abuse?

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

You can take advice from overly opinionated amatures, Or just read what Frank Green (an actual professional) wrote.
I'm calling total BS on 8000 rounds without cleaning!

There's no doubt that overbore cartridges are more problematic without cleaning but I've had carbon ring issues on a 6.5 after 300 rounds. I was cleaning every 50 or so but never used a good carbon solvent.
And abrasives like JB bore paste are also a great way to destroy a barrel.
Just keep up with cleaning and avoid issues from the beginning

 

[Stu]

 

[kharb22]

I'm glad to see as usual, a thread about barrel break in goes about as well as talking politics or religion these days.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

 

[Bubblehide]

I am still with Form on this, no and, if's or butts.

 

[Formidilosus]

I knew you'd show up! How about if your barrel turns into a copper mine after 30 rounds or you switch bullets?

Why would I care if it turns i to a copper mine? What does switching bullets matter?

And don't you get to use special unicorn powder that's not available to anyone else that allows such bore abuse?

?

 

[Spoonbill]

That’s what I’m talking about. Most people that “only clean when it needs it” are just looking for a reason or excuse to clean.

People should take one (1) rifle and shoot the barrel out without ever cleaning it and see what happens.

Form how do you tell when a barrel is shot out? Generally what I have heard and read is when groups start to open up but I have also heard that is when a barrel needs to be cleaned. Appreciate any insight on how you judge a shot out barrel.

 

[Formidilosus]

You can take advice from overly opinionated amatures, Or just read what Frank Green (an actual professional) wrote.

How many barrels has he shot out completely without ever cleaning?

I'm calling total BS on 8000 rounds without cleaning!

Haha.

There's no doubt that overbore cartridges are more problematic without cleaning but I've had carbon ring issues on a 6.5 after 300 rounds. I was cleaning every 50 or so but never used a good carbon solvent

How does this magic happen. There are multiple people on this board that have watched me shoot more than 300 rounds of 6.5 in a single day and still no “carbon ring”. Or maybe there is, but since the groups don’t change, who cares?

So if you’ve never tried not cleaning, how are you so convinced you’re correct?

 

[Formidilosus]

Form how do you tell when a barrel is shot out? Generally what I have heard and read is when groups start to open up but I have also heard that is when a barrel needs to be cleaned. Appreciate any insight on how you judge a shot out barrel.

What is shot out to you? Is it that the barrel no longer has the requisite precision you require? Or that the MV has dropped too much? Or a feeling?

I was a psycho cleaner and believed all the BS about barrel cleaning and cleans guns in general just like everyone else. Barrels lasted what they lasted depending on use- mostly they were “shot out” when they no longer grouped acceptably. Shoot enough and you get an idea how long barrels will last- just like you read in every barrel life thread.

As a cleaner- in general my barrel life for a 223 was 4-6,000 rounds, faster 6mm’s around 1,200-1,500, 6.5’s like 260 and CM- 2,000’ish, 308’s- 6-8,000, 300mags- 1,500’ish, 338’s- 2,500’ish, etc.

Then I stopped cleaning. For bolt guns, in every single case usable barrel life has went up. I’ve got 15k on that 223 that shot the group I posted, it still consistently averages 1.1-1.2 moa for ten round groups (literally.5 moa for three round “groups) and vertical is still good at 600m. I haven’t personally replaced a bolt action 308 barrel since I stopped cleaning- I get bored with them or want a change, etc before they stop shooting. That 308 with 15-16k on it is getting a new barrel, in 6mm- not because it’s shot out, but because I needed a 6XC candidate. In 6mm’s I certainly haven’t seen as many shot out in the last few years as I used to, but in no case of not cleaning has one been shot out due to lost precision before it historically would have, and most go a few hundred or more rounds on average before they do. Same for the 300 and 338 mags.


Long story shorter- I replace barrels when they no longer consistently group what I require for a 10-30 round average depending on use.

 

[Spoonbill]

What is shot out to you? Is it that the barrel no longer has the requisite precision you require? Or that the MV has dropped too much? Or a feeling?

I was a psycho cleaner and believed all the BS about barrel cleaning and cleans guns in general just like everyone else. Barrels lasted what they lasted depending on use- mostly they were “shot out” when they no longer grouped acceptably. Shoot enough and you get an idea how long barrels will last- just like you read in every barrel life thread.

As a cleaner- in general my barrel life for a 223 was 4-6,000 rounds, faster 6mm’s around 1,200-1,500, 6.5’s like 260 and CM- 2,000’ish, 308’s- 6-8,000, 300mags- 1,500’ish, 338’s- 2,500’ish, etc.

Then I stopped cleaning. For bolt guns, in every single case usable barrel life has went up. I’ve got 15k on that 223 that shot the group I posted, it still consistently averages 1.1-1.2 moa for ten round groups (literally.5 moa for three round “groups) and vertical is still good at 600m. I haven’t personally replaced a bolt action 308 barrel since I stopped cleaning- I get bored with them or want a change, etc before they stop shooting. That 308 with 15-16k on it is getting a new barrel, in 6mm- not because it’s shot out, but because I needed a 6XC candidate. In 6mm’s I certainly haven’t seen as many shot out in the last few years as I used to, but in no case of not cleaning has one been shot out due to lost precision before it historically would have, and most go a few hundred or more rounds on average before they do. Same for the 300 and 338 mags.


Long story shorter- I replace barrels when they no longer consistently group what I require for a 10-30 round average depending on use.

Thanks for quantifying barrel life from cleaning all the time to never cleaning, it helps to wade through the different opinions on what to do.

 

[JohnB]

Form the only question I'm left with is how can I get a hold of your ammunition supplier? Thanks for the wisdom.

Also what's you opinion/usage of Boresnakes?

 

[HighUintas]

Why would I care if it turns i to a copper mine? What does switching bullets matter?




?

Are you saying your barrel magically groups the same even if the copper and carbon buildup has reduced the bore diameter by a thousandth or two?

You've mentioned some sort of fouling equilibrium before, where after a period of not cleaning poi and/or group size stabilizes. Well if you've got a solid copper layer in your barrel of X composition and then switch to another bullet of Y copper jacket composition, you're telling me that's not going to cause an emotional upset of your barrel and it's fouling equilibrium?

You have a powder that doesn't create much carbon fouling, I assume?