Backcountry side arm

[LaGriz]

KJH,


"A Taurus Judge will give you a lot of versatility with a low price tag. I shot a whole box of the 45LC+P in ione without any issues, although I'm not sure if that is recommended or not. If you carried one of those, you could throw in a few shotshells or some buckshot. Obviously, its not the greatest or most effective piece of hardware out there but it would shoot hardcast +P bullets and shotshells with more payload than a CCI shotshell."

I too am a fan of the Taurus Judge. I have the titanium model with a rare 4" bbl. This revolver only handles 2 3/4" loads and I'm leary of any +P loads. It does shoot the 220 gr. Lever Evolution rounds pretty well. These loads are moving at over 1000 fps. and should have the energy required for most black bears or interior grizzly. I think if big browns or polar bears were in the cards, I would want to pack a 12 gauge slug gun or a .450 Marlin carbine. In that situation, a Judge might be best utilized to shoot your friend in the leg. After all, somebody has to live to tell the story! LOL!

LaGriz

 

[KJH]

KJH,


"A Taurus Judge will give you a lot of versatility with a low price tag. I shot a whole box of the 45LC+P in ione without any issues, although I'm not sure if that is recommended or not. If you carried one of those, you could throw in a few shotshells or some buckshot. Obviously, its not the greatest or most effective piece of hardware out there but it would shoot hardcast +P bullets and shotshells with more payload than a CCI shotshell."

I too am a fan of the Taurus Judge. I have the titanium model with a rare 4" bbl. This revolver only handles 2 3/4" loads and I'm leary of any +P loads. It does shoot the 220 gr. Lever Evolution rounds pretty well. These loads are moving at over 1000 fps. and should have the energy required for most black bears or interior grizzly. I think if big browns or polar bears were in the cards, I would want to pack a 12 gauge slug gun or a .450 Marlin carbine. In that situation, a Judge might be best utilized to shoot your friend in the leg. After all, somebody has to live to tell the story! LOL!

LaGriz

I suspect the +P rounds are not made for a Judge, but I wanted to see for myself. They handled just fine and the cylinder stayed together. The one I have is the 3" chamber and the 2.5" barrel. Like I said before, its not a super pistol but it gets the job done and can fill his need for shotshells. The pattern is huge at 15 yards!! With hardcast lead bullets it is way more accurate than you'd think.

 

[ben h]

Another fan of the .44 Mag here. If my pack is too heavy for that, something else has to go. I've only pulled it once on 2 mt lions that were stalking a buddy and myself. We didn't need to shoot, but I was glad we had them. I'll 2nd or 3rd that get whatever you can shoot reliably and consistently or you just as well carry a few rocks in your pocket.

 

[goodgrouper]

I had a turns tracker in 44mag but I sold it to upgrade to a glock 40 its 10mm. 15 shots versus 5. Now it makes saving for a glock 21 I will convert to 460 Rowland
D

 

[bean outdoors]

i really like a good .357

 

[Davebuech]

A .357 is good for anything up to Griz. Then I don't think a .44 is big enough either! Where I'm at Mt lion are my biggest threat so when I carry, I carry a Ruger SP101.

i really like a good .357

 

[Jskaanland]

The OP wants the option of birdshot. Not sure if it's even made in any semiauto cartridges. Seems like there would be a cycling issue. mtmuley

I was running a sig 229 in 40 and it ran the cci bird shot well. Not sure how my 10mm would handle it.

 

[napeequa55]

+1 ruger sp101 3" 357


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[Mackay Sagebrush]

glock G30 here. .45ACP subcompact

Below is a post that I wrote and posted on another site about the G30S, which I believe is an extremely practical Outdoorsman's sidearm.








Years ago I had a Glock 30 ( a compact .45 ACP, that holds 10 rounds in the magazine, and can use the full size 13 round Glock 21 mags) for a number of years.
It was a solid, ultra reliable shooter, but I did not care for how thick it felt overall, and sold it to a Trooper friend.

The newer G30S is built on the slightly different SF frame, along with a thinner width slide (From the G36 single stack .45 Glock). It is a whole other animal in terms of how it feels in the hands, overall weight and conceal-ability. The combination of the narrower slide and slightly smaller grip turns the G30S into a much better carry piece for me. Though the numbers don't look like much on paper, I have noticed a very definite difference in handling the G30S.

Last week I shot my Colt Light Weight Commander that I just got back from a truly excellent gunsmith, alongside my G30S. As much as I really like LW Commanders, I performed better with the little G30S.

I also compared the G30S alongside the G19, and they are very similar in overall size. The G30S is also extremely close in size to the S&W M&P Compact .40, which is my issued duty gun. The G30S is substantially easier to shoot well than the M&P Compact .40. By a long shot.


I had previously been contemplating an ideal combination backwoods big bore carry semi auto handgun and a CCW type piece, versus a revolver. The G30S made perfect sense.

I often carry a G21 .45 as a sidearm in the mountains when weight is an issue and I do not want to tote a rifle (such as when I am doing return trips, packing out a quartered up animal such as an elk). The Glock 21, while a large auto, is a rather light weight sidearm, and has an excellent firepower to weight ratio. In fact, with 13 rounds in the magazine, and one in the chamber, it still weighs less that an EMPTY steel framed 1911A1. It is also the softest shooting .45 auto I have ever used.

Since I hunt and do recreational things in the heart of wolf country, I feel better with more than just 6 rounds on deck, prior to being forced to reload. The .44 is an incredibly practical cartridge, and a long time favorite, but it could be very easy to go through 6 rounds at a pack of fast moving wolves, and end up with an empty gun, while still having numerous targets available. This is one of the reasons I sometimes favor a lightweight big bore such as the G21.

The G30S makes sense as a lightweight, compact big bore sidearm with adequate firepower on deck initially (10+1), with a G21 mag for a reload. The standard 13 round capacity, with a plus 4 baseplate, gives a person a 17 round magazine.
17 rounds of 230 grain .45 caliber slugs should likely handle most things a pistol is capable of handling.




With that said,the G30S makes a bunch of sense (to me) as an ideal sidearm for those who both carry CCW, and also may work around large livestock, along with doing outdoorsman type activities where large predators such as bears, wolves, etc reside.

In the thread on the other forum, a person mentioned that he thought the G30S had considerably more recoil than the standard G30. The punchline is that I don't think the G30S is difficult to handle at all in regards to recoil. I was running pretty hot 230 grain Blaser ball ammo, which is generally known for being on the warm side, and I found it quite manageable.


The G30S will not be completely replacing my G21 SF as an outdoorsman's big bore auto, but I do envision carrying it quite a bit in the role that the G21 SF had previously filled.









A G30S along the Salmon River!





Cheers!

 

[StrutNut]

I carry a Umarex 1911 .45. It flat out cycles anything you put through it and has better accuracy than the Glock I had before it. Its thin and comfortable to carry.

 

[spaniel]

I have a 329PD and Taurus TI 41Mag Tracker (hard to find, no longer made) which are my back country guns. Both drive hardcast bullets deep enough to be legitimate griz defense, which is why I bought them, hunting MT griz country. Both are light enough I don't even notice them on my belt.

I've been on many back country backpack hunts. Invariably, my partners with steel revolvers end up leaving them in the truck at the first opportunity. A 454 or 460 in the glove box is not awfully useful.

I am also a big 10mm fan, just not for grizzlies. Everything else. In my home state of Indiana it is my outdoors carry choice in a 1911 platform, hope to get a Commander frame to increase carryability. I have my Glocks but in 10mm I'd rather stick to the case support of a 1911.

 

[worx53]

Now if you converted the Glock 30s to a 460 Rowland it'd be interesting- I really like the Springfield compact 45 3.8 460 Rowland conversion- like your glock g30s on and a nicer grip

 

[Beendare]

I've never carried on archery hog hunts and many of the western states for deer and elk hunts unless they had Grizz.

There has been a few instances in the last few years that have me rethinking that.

Rifle hog hunter on a ranch my buddy guides in norcal charged by a big boar he didn't see and got tore up pretty bad before he could get his rifle to bear.

I had a wounded black bear launch himself at us from about 12' away.

I've had a couple close calls with hog charges and illegal pot farms.

A friend of a friend broke his leg in the wilderness and had no way to signal.
____

I can tell you that the ammo makes as much if not more difference than the weapon/caliber itself namely; hardcast ammo. I've seen hollowpoints fail to do much on up close hogs back when we shot a bunch of them doing depredation work.

I doubt I would pack a .44 in most places...but its worth it IMO in big bear country.

 

[frankrb3]

Check out a Smith & Wesson 69. A little heavier than a 329, but that helps with recoil and is a couple hundred cheaper. I got one 3 months ago and love it!

Same here. I looked closely at the 329PD for a while but settled on the 69. The size and weight is perfect and I don't mind losing one round. SHoots great and has a ton of power.

I hunt all fall where there are a lot of grizzly bears. Even when rifle hunting I still carry my model 69 and bear spray. I know that seems overkill, but I'm usually alone and can't count of someone to help me out. Also, I hike in and out in the dark and can actually shoot the 69 in total darkness with my headlamp on my head. Can't do that accurately with my rifle.

Bear spray is the responsible thing to carry in case I can convince the right bear to leave me a lone so I don't have to injure or kill it.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

If you are not in brown bear country, I'd go with a .357 with a 4" barrel. The snubbies are too tough to shoot well, and I prefer a 6" revolver barrel, but there is a weight trade off. The 4" is a good compromise, and with birdshot, you can probably still put a grouse or two in the camp pot. It is cheaper to feed a .357/.38 than a .44, so you will use it more, practice with it more, and be more efficient and comfortable with it.

If you are in brown bear territory, .44 mag with Buffalo Bore hard cast bullets. If you ever have to point it at an angry ball of brown fur, it will feel way, way too small, but may give you a fighting chance.

I would personally avoid the .44 special for the simple problem of ammo availability. You can find .38, .357, and .44 mag almost everywhere that sells ammo. If you get the .44 special, I bet dollars to doughnuts you wish you had gotten the magnum within the first year.

 

[les welch]

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[Colby]

Marksmanship Matters | Comparing the 10 mm, 450 SMC and .45 Super for Predator Defense
Here's an interesting article that guys might want to read.

 

[mcseal2]

Unless big bears are an issue I love my S&W 386XL Hunter. It's basically a 6" 7 shot 686 with a scandium frame. I can shoot it very well and it weighs the same as my 4.2" Ruger SP101 steel gun. The accuracy and controllability of the larger revolver at the same weight make it a winner for me.

I have a 3" S&W 60 Pro Series revolver that is lighter and more compact if I need to conceal the handgun. It's accurate also but jumps much more in recoil and is slower for follow up shots. The 3" barrel loses a lot of velocity also.

If I'm not packing a rifle in country where big bears may be an issue I have a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" revolver in 44 magnum. It's heavy but easy to shoot well. I developed a flinch shooting magnum rifles years ago that I have no interest in seeing carry over to handguns at the wrong time. I prefer packing the extra weight to losing accuracy. That's just me personally, if I thought I could shoot a 329 44 well I'd own one.

I work on a ranch and have had to euthanize cattle that have become injured at times. If I'm forced to perform this unpleasant duty, I want it to be as quick and humane as possible. I trust nothing less than a quality full power 158gr bullet from a 357 with at least a 4" barrel to penetrate the skull on an older cow or bull. I've seen or heard about from law enforcement or game wardens that 9mm, 40, 45, and 38spl can fail to penetrate the skull and end things instantly. This was with self defense or ball ammo. Shots behind the ear and not directly through the front of the skull are best with questionable loads if it's all that's available. I consider it more humane to have a gun capable of penetration from any necessary angle. I can see how self defense ammo designed not to over-penetrate and hurt someone behind the intended target would fail to penetrate heavy bone, and cheap ball ammo probably has a light jacket. Heavier loads for the 357 are designed at least partially with longer barreled lever action carbines, long barreled revolvers, and hunting in mind. They are stouter constructed to fit these firearm platforms. They have always delivered the penetration I want and so I trust them as a minimum. I've never tried the Buffalo Bore or similar hard cast bullets from the semi-autos, they might be just as good. I just know the 357 with the loads I use works and I don't want an animal to suffer unnecessarily so I won't use anything less.

Any handgun I might use to defend myself from feral dogs, big cats, or bears I want to know I can penetrate the skull or some bone and muscle with. I don't think I'd ever use any semi-auto round for that except the 10mm. For home defense or concealed carry I prefer a semi-auto that is less likely to over penetrate and holds more rounds. My home defense handgun is a Sig 226 with a light on the rail. I am a fan of 1911's and may someday own one in 10mm for a woods gun. I grew up using my allowance to buy a brick of 22's each week to put through my bolt 22 rifle and Ruger Single Six revolver though, I can still get the first accurate shot off quicker with a good revolver than anything else. I love 1911's largely because they can have triggers good enough to match my revolvers single action pull. I shoot good triggers on all my rifles and the handguns I shoot best.

 

[1signguy]

Unless you are in brown bear country I just don't ever feel a need for a sidearm- I would much rather be armed in town... Except for the fact every other guy in my town is carrying so I feel pretty safe there too.

Everyone should do as they please but I laugh a little inside when I see guys carrying sidearms on a rifle hunt because of black bears, pigs or wolves... Especially when they have a buddy with them who is also carrying a rifle...

Don't get me wrong- I love pistols and it is fun to carry one but come on- this isn't a zombie apocalypse.... Heck- when I see a bear or cat I am always just in awe and happy to be out among the wild things... Of course I have never had one chase me either.

 

[dotman]

Unless you are in brown bear country I just don't ever feel a need for a sidearm- I would much rather be armed in town... Except for the fact every other guy in my town is carrying so I feel pretty safe there too.

Everyone should do as they please but I laugh a little inside when I see guys carrying sidearms on a rifle hunt because of black bears, pigs or wolves... Especially when they have a buddy with them who is also carrying a rifle...

Don't get me wrong- I love pistols and it is fun to carry one but come on- this isn't a zombie apocalypse.... Heck- when I see a bear or cat I am always just in awe and happy to be out among the wild things... Of course I have never had one chase me either.

I wouldn't laugh just because others want to protect themselves. If your not going to carry around black bears, cats or wolves why would you carry around brown bear or griz? Pretty sure black bears have killed and eaten more people then any other bear but I could be wrong. Also shady people hangout in the woods and I've been happy to have a side arm a few times. Yes I would say chances you will need a side arm are small, even around griz so why take one at all. Chances are very high that black bear, griz, wolves and cats will leave you be but we pack protection for that .001% chance for all of them.

I do agree it is a little redundant to carry on a rifle hunt but if your in thick vegetation a rifle many not do you much good but really pistol probably will not either other then a false sense of security. I always have a pistol on me when in the woods, just always have carried and will even if you laugh at me