Article - Impact of introduced wolves on elk/deer (CPW)

[Overdrive]

Obviously terrain is different but 2600+ wolves sure thrive in MN where there isn't such big blocks of land free from roads and development.

And yet there is still Deer and people still out hunting them.

I've guided several hunters from Minnesota and Wisconsin some guys say the hunting hasn't changed others say it's down in some area's of the state.

I see the biggest challenge in Colorado will be the cattle and sheep ranchers will have their hands full, and after awhile I really wonder if the payouts for livestock loss will continue or not.

Colorado isn't the "Wild" it use to be, with so much development and recreation in prime habitat.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Colorado isn't the "Wild" it use to be, with so much development and recreation in prime habitat.

Yeah, the state of Colorado isn't wild at all. Very domesticated and quite tame.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Initially, in the area I hunted in Montana, the elk would move to adjacent drainages when the wolves moved in. As the population grew the elk were largely exterminated.

In the areas I hunt now, a large pack can move all of the elk completely out their normal range. Miles out of their normal range.

The only things that saves us is when they eat beef calves then the gov't hunters will exterminate the pack and buy us 4-5 years of peace before they build up again. If you don't have beef on the forest, I don't think there is hope for the elk.

 

[Indian Summer]

Humans

Elk used to be plains animals, similar to bison. What happened 100 years ago, let alone thousands isn’t a valid example of how things will play out in the future.

Well said. Thank you. It’s not speculation. We’ve already seen what happens when you introduce such an effective apex predator into an area where elk moose and deer have lived for generations without their presence. They die.

 

[stanginthe11s]

I don't have experience with wolves yet, but I can tell you what happened here with coyote, which is just a smaller dog.
we have always had them, and we use to manage them well with bounties and very loose regs. that has stopped thanks to the people we love so much. today, we have a massive population that has decimated deer herds in some areas, small game hunting is on the verge of being nonexistent and people, farms and pets are attacked on a daily basis. they refuse to remove the regs, but most officers have stated they will not enforce the rules on coyotes on personal property, so I shoot on sight any time.
I know it's different, but if that's what a small dog can do then I would think a wolf is a threat if left unchecked.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

We’ve already seen what happens when you introduce such an effective apex predator into an area where elk moose and deer have lived for generations without their presence.

Yep, there's a learning curve for ungulates that have been artificially removed from a certain type of predation.

 

[wind gypsy]

And yet there is still Deer and people still out hunting them.

I've guided several hunters from Minnesota and Wisconsin some guys say the hunting hasn't changed others say it's down in some area's of the state.

I see the biggest challenge in Colorado will be the cattle and sheep ranchers will have their hands full, and after awhile I really wonder if the payouts for livestock loss will continue or not.

Colorado isn't the "Wild" it use to be, with so much development and recreation in prime habitat.

“Hasn’t changed”.. since when? The wolves never left MN despite having bounties on them damn near up til they became listed on the ESA. Their range has definitely expanded and and I can say with direct experience that the whitetail hunting in core wolf country is awful right now. Wolves are far from the sole reason why but they are a significant contributor.

If the CO elk are getting pinched with loss of winter habitat and can’t hack the stress from non-consumptive users, having packs of predators chasing them through their stress periods and putting a big dent in the calve recruitment hurts that much more.

The whataboutism is silly. Like people should be ok with another hit to deer and elk just because they are already facing struggles. It should be the opposite.

What has changed- Moose populations. We lost our moose season years ago due to steep population decline. Funny how our neighbors in ND with the "prime moose habitat"(sarcasm) are doing quite well though. They don't happen to have significant wolf and bear populations hammering moose calves when they hit the ground.

 

[wapitibob]

This is our Elk herds vs wolves with the shaded area noting first year a pack was documented. It should be noted that we lost effective predator control with Measure 18 almost 30 years ago (no bait for Bears and no dogs for Bear/Cougar).



W

 

[Coveyleader]

This is our Elk herds vs wolves with the shaded area noting first year a pack was documented. It should be noted that we lost effective predator control with Measure 18 almost 30 years ago (no bait for Bears and no dogs for Bear/Cougar).


View attachment 581056
W

Many of these stats do not reflect reality. There is a big difference between populations increasing on private lands vs. “Used to be elk” out in traditional wilderness/national forests type settings.

I’m not going to look it up, but I would bet some of the units with significant drops while other flourishing reflect my above comments.

Increasing elk herds in areas off limits for hunting and the average Joe hunter is a form of smoke and mirrors feel good biology at best.

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

Yea sad deal. They will ban lion hunting. Just like they got spring bear banned. Yet CPW kills tons of bears every summer and just wastes them. A hunter would
Have to pay money and would
Use the meat and employ other things that come with hunting. But instead as long as a hunter isn’t doing it the antis are ok with it. Sad to see great state of colorado going down the drain.

Yea your right polis won’t be here forever but I hope the damage he does doesn’t have an ever lasting impact. He has sure been stacking the wildlife commission with anti hunting folks. Voting has consequences and sucks the cities control the vote

You can’t blame the CPW for the spring gear season being destroyed…. That along with trapping, using hounds on bears and baiting was all voted out by the voters of CO around 1993…. Funny how that “helped” the bears out so much. Ballot box biology and now the antis found out how it works and they can get anything they want with a bunch of signatures


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[Customweld]

Many of these stats do not reflect reality. There is a big difference between populations increasing on private lands vs. “Used to be elk” out in traditional wilderness/national forests type settings.

I’m not going to look it up, but I would bet some of the units with significant drops while other flourishing reflect my above comments.

Increasing elk herds in areas off limits for hunting and the average Joe hunter is a form of smoke and mirrors feel good biology at best.

You wouldn't really know it by looking at Idaho's elk population trends, but that is a pretty accurate statement.
There are now huge elk herds in places that they historically didn't live. The elk are in ag and urban interface areas and cause all sorts of hate and discontent. Areas that historically had great herds have been reduced down to tiny numbers. So the numbers of elk in Idaho are strong, but the areas that where they are has changed dramatically.

 

[justin davis]

You can’t blame the CPW for the spring gear season being destroyed…. That along with trapping, using hounds on bears and baiting was all voted out by the voters of CO around 1993…. Funny how that “helped” the bears out so much. Ballot box biology and now the antis found out how it works and they can get anything they want with a bunch of signatures


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Yea I’m not blaming CPW on that. That’s all the general public getting to decide what’s best for the wildlife in colorado. Just sucks when the general public who knows
Nothing about wildlife gets to decide

 

[justin davis]

Gov. Jared Polis' appointees to parks and wildlife commission draws criticism

Yet another controversy arose out of Gov. Jared Polis' appointments to the state parks and wildlife commission after he picked the author of Colorado's wolf conservation plan as a representative for hunters and anglers.

www.coloradopolitics.com

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

You wouldn't really know it by looking at Idaho's elk population trends, but that is a pretty accurate statement.
There are now huge elk herds in places that they historically didn't live. The elk are in ag and urban interface areas and cause all sorts of hate and discontent. Areas that historically had great herds have been reduced down to tiny numbers. So the numbers of elk in Idaho are strong, but the areas that where they are has changed dramatically.

I honestly have to agree, the populations have dropped i know they have but may not show it on all reports or it may not seem like it has on all reports. I know in CO whats going to happen is the first batch of wolves is going to migrate (hopefully) because they are literally dropping them right in my back yard. Since this 50 mile buffer and everything it took this release and shut it down to a small area. Now releasing them in December thats going to cut down the amount of access points to drop them, cause im pretty sure they arent gonna fly them in by helicopter and drop them off randomly in the back country, they are gonna need video and pictures and all that stuff for the voters to prove they did it and such a historic event blah blah. So im betting they are going to be near accessible trailheads in the winter but also will want to keep it secret and not say anything til the week after it happens. Which means they are probably going to be dropped near winter habitat, urban areas with ranches, cattle, and wintering herds. Hopefully we dont have another winter like we did last year, nothing like having starving herds being chased down by wolves to keep them healthy. but eventually some of these wolves will migrate, Elk in the NW corner of the state that migrate to utah will probably eventually staying there, i bet wolves will push elk towards the front range, they are going to leave their now historic areas to find safer areas. they are gonna hold up on ranches where the ranchers are constantly having to harass the wolves out, harass the elk/deer out, wolves will move up to the cattle and sheep grazing allotments in the higher country for the summer. but a once thriving area full of elk and deer will most likely be void after a few years. they will have to migrate and move to avoid the wolves and we all know the wolves will follow eventually.

Northwest CO, Gunnison Basin, Roaring Fork Valley, Flat Tops, Vail Area will all be wolf paradise. The Roaring Fork, Crystal River, Fryingpan River, and Eagle River valleys will be the main drop zone for the first 25 wolves (i believe that's the plan for December is 25 this year)

I also agree with what Indian Summer said earlier, If you have the chance do whats right... but i will say all the (i will kill everyone i see, Shovel and shutup folks) you all have no idea how hard it is to actually kill a wolf. That is one of the main reasons Idaho has trapping and hunting of wolves, the success of hunted wolves is so low cause they are smart animals, an outfitter friend of mine in Idaho said they were selling their permit cause of the lack of elk and loss of business, and in his 10 years there he has never even been able to get off his horse and get his gun out to even take a shot at one. Its a huge flex to say that stuff on social media i guess, but it comes from people with no experience in the situation, they are tough animals to actually hunt, and all the pro wolf people thinking they will be able to go to western CO now and see wolves are dreaming. They are elusive animals and unless you are on a ranch in the winter and dealing with them preying on ur cattle you dont hardly ever see them.

 

[wapitibob]

Yea I’m not blaming CPW on that. That’s all the general public getting to decide what’s best for the wildlife in colorado. Just sucks when the general public who knows
Nothing about wildlife gets to decide

Nothing but apathy keeping the hunting public from creating their own petitions and trying to get some of that lost opportunity back.

 

[stanginthe11s]

they are tough animals to actually hunt, and all the pro wolf people thinking they will be able to go to western CO now and see wolves are dreaming.

my huskies love jerky, that and a belly rub gets em every time. gotta switch up tactics lol

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Nothing but apathy keeping the hunting public from creating their own petitions .....

This is the norm among the hunting public nowadays; sit around and bitch on social media sites but do nothing in the actual reality of tangible life.

 

[Airborne1]

I dont hunt Colorado but have read enough conversations here about those of you who are residents and not a fan of the wolf introduction. You guys heard they officially released some on Dec 18 in Grand county?

It's official – wolves have been released into Colorado's backcountry | OutThere Colorado

It's official! Colorado Parks and Wildlife has released five gray wolves onto public land in the Centennial State.

denvergazette.com

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[brian wagar]

Sad deal have got to see first-hand how wolves impact game here in Montana and it's not good. Anti's well soon be crying game herds are too small to support being hunted and there you go they won without even casting a ballot vote.

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

I dont hunt Colorado but have read enough conversations here about those of you who are residents and not a fan of the wolf introduction. You guys heard they officially released some on Dec 18 in Grand county?

It's official – wolves have been released into Colorado's backcountry | OutThere Colorado

It's official! Colorado Parks and Wildlife has released five gray wolves onto public land in the Centennial State.

denvergazette.com

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Not to be a jerk or anything but honestly if you have any form of social media with any CO hunting page and you had to of seen it lol


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