Arrow Penetration....

[Wilderlife]

If the claim is being made the mechs hit behind the pin more often than fixed heads, the points need to be raised about how well the equipment is tuned, and how good of a shot the hunter is. I have no issues getting my fixed heads to hit 'behind the pin' but I also don't really shoot that far. My setup is tuned very well, though.

What is the rationale or data behind the idea that a bigger cut through the guts gives more chance of finding it quicker? Is it because a wider cut has the chance of hitting something that matters, or is the idea that a 2in wide cut through the stomach will actually make it die faster than a 2in cut? Genuine question.

I've got more than enough energy for mechs but the animals I shoot die just fine. If someone tried to convince me a mech head would see them die faster I'd be interested in that rationale. It's typical for the animals I hunt with my mates to die in much less than a quick 30 metre run.

Foolish is a strong word.

 

[fatlander]

If the claim is being made the mechs hit behind the pin more often than fixed heads, the points need to be raised about how well the equipment is tuned, and how good of a shot the hunter is. I have no issues getting my fixed heads to hit 'behind the pin' but I also don't really shoot that far. My setup is tuned very well, though.

What is the rationale or data behind the idea that a bigger cut through the guts gives more chance of finding it quicker? Is it because a wider cut has the chance of hitting something that matters, or is the idea that a 2in wide cut through the stomach will actually make it die faster than a 2in cut? Genuine question.

I've got more than enough energy for mechs but the animals I shoot die just fine. If someone tried to convince me a mech head would see them die faster I'd be interested in that rationale. It's typical for the animals I hunt with my mates to die in much less than a quick 30 metre run.

Foolish is a strong word.

It’s really easy to make a fixed blade not hit behind the pin. You can torque the grip, pull into the wall a different way than you typically do, execute your release differently. . . All things that happen when shooting on 30 degree slopes out of breath or at an awkward angle on a cold November morning. Mechs are more forgiving, period. That’s why people that can’t tune use them as a bandaid.

Bigger holes in the guts put more blood on the ground. Small holes in the guts get plugged much quicker and overall bleed less. Less blood/no blood makes it harder to find animals. Again this is just my anecdotal experience of seeing a couple hundred dead animals killed by arrows.


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[Okie-hunter]

Nothing gets through shoulder knuckles with any regularity. Well designed mechs give you a higher likelihood of finding gut shot critters.

There’s no denying a good fixed head gets through bone much better than any mechanical… Therefore a well designed COC gives you a higher likelihood of killing a shoulder shot animal.
You talk about big holes of mechs but a 2” 2 blade (common in mechs) only has 1/8” more total cut than a 1 1/4” 3 blade. (Common in fixed).
Not to mention a COC is more likely to get a pass through which also increases your odds of finding the animal. I’ve seen double lunged deer run 300 yards and they were only alive 30-40 seconds after the shot. That’s not always an easy track job.
Nobody is denying that mechs are inherently more accurate. But many of us don’t have any issue getting fixed blades to fly just as well at the range we are willing to shoot.
Mechanicals have their advantages. Fixed blades have different advantages.

 

[fatlander]

There’s no denying a good fixed head gets through bone much better than any mechanical… Therefore a well designed COC gives you a higher likelihood of killing a shoulder shot animal.
You talk about big holes of mechs but a 2” 2 blade (common in mechs) only has 1/8” more total cut than a 1 1/4” 3 blade. (Common in fixed).
Not to mention a COC is more likely to get a pass through which also increases your odds of finding the animal. I’ve seen double lunged deer run 300 yards and they were only alive 30-40 seconds after the shot. That’s not always an easy track job.
Nobody is denying that mechs are inherently more accurate. But many of us don’t have any issue getting fixed blades to fly just as well at the range we are willing to shoot.
Mechanicals have their advantages. Fixed blades have different advantages.

My fixed heads fly just fine to 75ish yards before they start falling off due to drag.

To quote Aron Snyder, “If my right nut depended on hitting something with a broadhead, I wouldn’t reach for a fixed head.”

Pass throughs are here nor there for finding animals in my experience. Hit them in the pump house, and it’s a good day. Hit them in the guts or heavy bone, and it’s a shitty day. There’s exponentially more gut than heavy bone that a CoC can actually get through with regularity that a well designed mech wouldn’t. Prepare accordingly, build the most forgiving arrow set up you can, and don’t shoot shoulder knuckles.

No one is saying that the mech is the end all be all. There are plenty of people that shouldn’t shoot them, but the vast majority of grown men over 5 foot 9 pulling 65+ pounds probably should if they can tune a bow.


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[Okie-hunter]

I will say I don’t see any advantages of the hybrid broadheads I’ve seen. You don’t get the forgiveness of mechs or the increased penetration of fixed. But I actually just glanced at the sevr hybrids and the fixed portion is so small maybe you can retain some of that forgiveness. Just seems like a bleeder blade on the mechanical.

 

[Okie-hunter]

How does a bigger hole help with finding animals but 2 smaller holes doesn’t help?
2 holes most certainly helps in finding animals.
Think a hard downward angle on a double or single lunged deer. I’ll take that smaller extra hole low in his chest every time over a larger hole high on the body when it comes time to track.

 

[fatlander]

How does a bigger hole help with finding animals but 2 smaller holes doesn’t help?
2 holes most certainly helps in finding animals.
Think a hard downward angle on a double or single lunged deer. I’ll take that smaller extra hole low in his chest every time over a larger hole high on the body when it comes time to track.

Again, I’ve only been involved in finding a couple hundred. . Maybe you have more experience.

Two holes vs 1 hole hasn’t jumped out at me as the issue with not finding stuff. If you hit stuff if the pump house, it’s never really hard to find them. Hitting them back and losing blood is a different story. Big holes have that happen less than little ones in my experience.


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[Wilderlife]

It’s really easy to make a fixed blade not hit behind the pin. You can torque the grip, pull into the wall a different way than you typically do, execute your release differently. . . All things that happen when shooting on 30 degree slopes out of breath or at an awkward angle on a cold November morning. Mechs are more forgiving, period. That’s why people that can’t tune use them as a bandaid.

What you're describing is just poor form. Yes, it's hard to replicate perfect form in the field, and yes, a fixed head will be less forgiving, but I don't see the point in choosing a broadhead based on inevitable form breakdown. Again, my fixed heads hit just fine out to the distances I hunt.

A poorly tuned arrow with a mech or fixed head is still less desirable than a well-tuned arrow, regardless of the broadhead. We all know that.

My mates and I have our fair share of animals on the ground as well. I've made one kill with a mech head and one follow up shot with one. I don't mind them at all, to be honest, but my preference will always be fixed head.

Durability is a high priority for us and mech heads won't stand up like some of our fixed heads do.

 

[fatlander]

What you're describing is just poor form. Yes, it's hard to replicate perfect form in the field, and yes, a fixed head will be less forgiving, but I don't see the point in choosing a broadhead based on inevitable form breakdown. Again, my fixed heads hit just fine out to the distances I hunt.

A poorly tuned arrow with a mech or fixed head is still less desirable than a well-tuned arrow, regardless of the broadhead. We all know that.

My mates and I have our fair share of animals on the ground as well. I've made one kill with a mech head and one follow up shot with one. I don't mind them at all, to be honest, but my preference will always be fixed head.

Durability is a high priority for us and mech heads won't stand up like some of our fixed heads do.

Sample size of 2 with mechs. . . Dang that’s a lot.


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[Wilderlife]

Don't twist my discussion points. I just said I shot two things with mechs. I didn't say whether they were good, bad, or indifferent. My exact words were "I don't mind them at all". To make it easier for you now I'll go one further - I liked them and will probably buy some more in the future to keep in my quiver.

The fact I've only shot two animals with mechs doesn't change the fact that I have a lot of experienced with fixed heads and they hit where my pin is when the shot goes off.

That's the point I was making. I wasn't really completely disagreeing with points you were making. I was just adding to the discussion. Of course, the average bowhunter may shoot tighter groups with mechs compared to fixed heads, but there are lots of factors to consider. Distance is an obvious one. I don't shoot very far at all so that adds to both my experience, and reasons I make the choices I do.

Again, you used the word 'foolish'. I don't consider the way I bowhunt to be foolish.

 

[roosiebull]

You’re right but large cut mechanicals reduce the odds of getting a pass through period. Let alone hit hard bone. Saw a guy hunting elk w G5 megameats and figured he’d probably be lucky to get a pass through after just hitting a rib or two.

Have you hunted elk much?

Pass through is great, but not even close to guaranteed regardless, my very favorite shot on elk will likely not have an exit, and that’s quartered away a little with the arrow hitting the offside shoulder in the thick part. Regardless of setup, all I have ever wanted was for my arrow to make it to the opposite side of the cavity, beyond that I don’t care, never have.

I personally don’t like little narrow heads (like 1” 2 blades) i have seen a double lung elk with a little 2 blade live for an hour, didn’t go far but stayed on its feet for a long time

I think with modern compounds, elk are not very hard to shoot through. If I were to pick one head to use forever it would be the GK xl, it penetrates well and does some damage

Bad shots are made all of the time, and people can’t handle blaming themselves so they blame their gear

I have never killed anything with a mechanical, but if you don’t kill an elk with one, you either picked a really crappy head, you have a very low energy setup, or you made a bad shot. I think there are a handful of mechs these days that will do their job if the hunter does theirs, and i assume that rage pulled out of that bull was the result of poor shooting

People have found broadheads of all configurations in critters, from little SB’s to mechs, so either all broadheads suck or people suck at shooting

I personally like the middle ground for cut size, because that’s what makes sense to me, I like a setup that will reliably shoot through a bull if only ribs are encountered, and I ain’t passing up shots that won’t reliably end with a pass through, it’s never mattered to me

 

[mtnbound]

In my 4 decades of bowhunting, I have come to appreciate arrow penetration.....namely pass through shots.

I know, the "Big Hole" BH's are sexy and many guys are convinced they are the way to go....until they don't get much penetration.

I know one guy in Montana that probably wishes he shot a setup with more penetration after losing a really nice 6 point bull.

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I agree penetration is vital and I have always looked to maximize the odds of getting the deepest penetration possible.
I think the mechanical heads can work and they are easier to tune now that it seems everyone is shooting 90 yards at animals. But just like a bullet leaving a barrel an arrow is losing speed as soon as it’s off the string.
I have seen some manufacturers state you should have a certain amount of kinetic energy for mechanicals to perform but everyone measures the speed and energy right after the point of release but that’s not the impact velocity at the animal, so it seems to me that a mechanical heads should be shot at closer distances to maintain a higher KE not farther where it is slower and has less KE. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Beendare]

Man, note to self....don't insult another guys Broadhead.....its a fight to the death.
Grin

 

[Wilderlife]

It shouldn't be that black and white. People should be capable of reading posts comprehensively and having an effective discussion.

 

[guitarpreston]

If you fellas are so inclined, the Huntian podcast had Jeremy Dugger on and he shared some interesting statistics he accumulated through the years. Interesting stuff. They've both got their place in my quiver, but without a doubt the mech will be more forgiving in flight when I am shitting my britches at full draw.

 

[TxxAgg]

Mechanical broadheads are like Leupolds. They work until they don't and have lots and lots of marketing behind them.

 

[Okie-hunter]

If you fellas are so inclined, the Huntian podcast had Jeremy Dugger on and he shared some interesting statistics he accumulated through the years. Interesting stuff. They've both got their place in my quiver, but without a doubt the mech will be more forgiving in flight when I am shitting my britches at full draw.

Just gave it a listen. Some good info in there! Sounded like you could sum it up pretty well with the statement most the time the indian is the problem, not the arrow.

 

[Beendare]

It's a beautiful thing when a critter just stands after being hit....looking around like, "What just happened"...then they fall over

No mech head guy can tell you what that feeling is like because they run like their tail is on fire.....

 

[Wilderlife]

Yes, it's one of the most rewarding feelings/experiences of hunting with a bow. Many of our kills with sharp two blades that zip straight through a critter see the animal take a couple of hops/steps, look around, then fall over. I'm not talking about the odd one or two. I'm talking about a dozen over the last couple of months. It happens a lot more with the feral goats than the pigs.