Arrow Penetration on Elk

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The rabbit hole :)

You are right, it does not reflect hide, flesh, etc..

Btw, how are you measuring penetration?


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My point was I hope you are not measuring from (nock end) which is sticking out of the target- comparing which nock is further in the target. That is not a way of measuring penetration on 2 different heads.


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My point was I hope you are not measuring from (nock end) which is sticking out of the target- comparing which nock is further in the target.

As long as you're subtracting that measurement from the overall arrow length it's going to give you the same measurement. But with the Shuttle T's........it hasn't been close enough to even matter. Yet, I don't even put them in my quiver for hunting anymore. Wasn't getting adequate blood trails for my preferences even with real good hits. But they penetrate like a son of a gun. Everything I've shot with them has been a pass through and it hasn't even been close. I can't say that for my other heads.
 
It does if 1 head is 3" (trad head) and 1 is 1" (Shuttle T). Actual measurements of penetration is important when the perceived difference is just a couple of inches in foam. But I got what you are saying. I am in a deer stand so I better stop being on this phone :)


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This is a timely thread. Well last night I had complete pass thru at 30 yards with my Montec G5, 70 lb draw on my bow. :D Elk went 50 yards and dropped. The freezer will be really full now. I found the arrow probably another 25 yards past where I hit the elk laying on the ground. That was a good sight!
 
Many miss the importance of a pass through, thus don't maki it a priority. Hard for me to believe that so many have not figured out the many positives of getting a clean pass. Think about it...animals with arrows left hanging out react like the boogie man has got them. They see arrow hanging out out with their peripheral vision and feel and hear the arrow as they depart. Adrenaline kicks in and they go faster and further than they otherwise would. Couple that will less blood trail and it is a recipe for a grid search and that doesn't always work out.

Add to this the lack on knowledge of which setups get easy passes and it is no wonder so many don't get the penetration needed for the post above results.
 
Size and shape only matters in the fact that size and shape can often be the determining factor in having 2 holes, sharpness being equal. Which size and shape is best takes testing and time to form accurate conclusions, or you can just trust someone who has done the testing already...that would be me.

To say I have killed a ton of animals would be an understatement. The fact is I have arrowed right around 15 tons of 4 legged game and 2 tons of turkeys. The knowledge learned by taking so much game was multiplied by the fact that I have used roughly 100 different designs and styles of heads in the process. Add the fact that I get pretty technical in the observation of damage done by individual hits and you have a lot of experience.

One of the things I have learned through all this is there is little parrellel between foam testing and animal testing. The separation between a good and poor penetrating head is magnified much more in game than in foam. In game the initial penetration of hide is the key to pen and as a whole, and certain heads do a much better job

It's probably no surprise that cut on contact heads penetrate better, but few have tapped into the mystery of concave shape broadhead structure. It is a simple explanation why these heads perform so well. You see when broadheads first make contact with hide, the most resistance occurs between contact and when the head pops through. There is some hide stretching before the head pops and often the blades are fully contacting hide befo and the head pops through. The short heads that are so popular now are more prone the this and the blades are having to press through hide rather than slice. With the keener concave design there is less pressing of the blades and they pop through with less resistance. As with heads like the Simmons less than 1/4 inch of blade presses before popping through, and once pen to is established the resistance is minimal from that point on.
 
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The importance of penetration is undeniable...

This vid explains why its so important....you can skip to 9,10 minutes to see why Pneumothorax is such a quick killer.

if your BH is not getting a complete pass thru....you are missing the point.
[video=youtube;h90KM2fDRMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h90KM2fDRMA[/video]
 
Size and shape only matters in the fact that size and shape can often be the determining factor in having 2 holes, sharpness being equal. Which size and shape is best takes testing and time to form accurate conclusions, or you can just trust someone who has done the testing already...that would be me.

To say I have killed a ton of animals would be an understatement. The fact is I have arrowed right around 15 tons of 4 legged game and 2 tons of turkeys. The knowledge learned by taking so much game was multiplied by the fact that I have used roughly 100 different designs and styles of heads in the process. Add the fact that I get pretty technical in the observation of damage done by individual hits and you have a lot of experience.

One of the things I have learned through all this is there is little parrellel between foam testing and animal testing. The separation between a good and poor penetrating head is magnified much more in game than in foam. In game the initial penetration of hide is the key to pen and as a whole, and certain heads do a much better job

It's probably no surprise that cut on contact heads penetrate better, but few have tapped into the mystery of concave shape broadhead structure. It is a simple explanation why these heads perform so well. You see when broadheads first make contact with hide, the most resistance occurs between contact and when the head pops through. There is some hide stretching before the head pops and often the blades are fully contacting hide befo and the head pops through. The short heads that are so popular now are more prone the this and the blades are having to press through hide rather than slice. With the keener concave design there is less pressing of the blades and they pop through with less resistance. As with heads like the Simmons less than 1/4 inch of blade presses before popping through, and once pen to is established the resistance is minimal from that point on.


I am sufficiently impressed with the magnitude of your prowess. Could you please supply real world examples of your technical observations regarding depth of penetration between your Simmons and some of the 100 other different designs?
 
" Could you please supply real world examples of your technical observations regarding depth of penetration between your Simmons and some of the 100 other different designs?"


I have 2 elk kills with Simmons, both provided 2 holes. One went through at an angle, passing through the shoulder blade and out the opposite side exiting near the last rib with the arrow buried to the fletching and the broadhead snapping off. Elk went 25 yards, stopped and fell over. 70# bow with 800ish grain arrow

The other was broadside and arrow passed through and was 20 yards past theelk. It was a high lung shot and the elk went 80 to 90 yards. 65 pound bow with 700 grain arrow.

Most of the observations on YouTube had far less penetration even with smaller dia heads.
 
I'm 100% on pass throughs in elk. My gear is right. I started this topic after seeing so many non pass throughs on YouTube, so it's obvious that most hunters are not setup for maximum penetration.

Penetration experience on deer transfers to elk much better than foam testing.

To get this you have to have an open mind and put away preferences and test some for yourself.
 
One thing that is easy to miss in this subject is the effect of what goes on the rear end of the arrow...feathers allow for a pass much easier than the stiff high profile vanes. They stabilize arrows faster too, and guide broadheads better.

A fellow bowsiter pointed out that game shot with feather fletch react with less stress than when shot with vanes and I agree, so there is 2 reasons to shoot feathers and both apply to this topic.
 
Think a lot of this is just the same old ford dodge Chevy talk I put a second arrow in my bull this year at 102 yards arrow past thru I shoot a t3 all I wanna know with my head is if I do my part it will do its.

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I'm 100% on pass throughs in elk. My gear is right. I started this topic after seeing so many non pass throughs on YouTube, so it's obvious that most hunters are not setup for maximum penetration.

Penetration experience on deer transfers to elk much better than foam testing.

To get this you have to have an open mind and put away preferences and test some for yourself.
I find it interesting that you have two elk under your belt and have now deemed your equipment "right" based on comparisons of you tube videos. First the real world value of two is basically nothing. Second you tube is not a great place to get real world value on penetration, after all do you know the draw weight, arrow weight, broadhead, or tune?
As for the testing of different broadheads I can say I am no expert, but I have more real world experience than you.....and not all with the same broadhead.
I think this should be my last post on this so I will leave with something nonsensical. I have shot over 200 deer with a 243, therefore the best broadhead for elk is made by VPA.
 
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