Arizona does away with auction tags

[Steve O]

Quick question why does the department donate the tag to a non-profit rather than keep the entire process in house?



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Because when you donate it to WSF and there are 5000 people in the room that want to hunt sheep, even the rich guys have competition. Dude at the table next to me in January bid up to $590,000 on the Colorado tag before his wife gave him the throat cut sign…

 

[HuntHarder]

The ole cut throat sign. Haha

 

[cuerro viejo]

Because when you donate it to WSF and there are 5000 people in the room that want to hunt sheep, even the rich guys have competition. Dude at the table next to me in January bid up to $590,000 on the Colorado tag before his wife gave him the throat cut sign…

which is crazy when you think about it because LO voucher for BH bighorn tag in CO is only +-100k, and state only get roughly 2300.

I think Auction tags put a very large figure into Conservation budgets. I figure thats unattainable on resident licenses sales alone.

 

[Steve O]

which is crazy when you think about it because LO voucher for BH bighorn tag in CO is only +-100k, and state only get roughly 2300.

I think Auction tags put a very large figure into Conservation budgets. I figure thats unattainable on resident licenses sales alone.

It’s almost like the rich dudes aren’t just doing it to get their tag…

I’ve watched a guy at the sheep show buy over a dozen hunts in a weekend at the auction. Most for at least double what they could be bought for directly from the outfitter.

Why? Because it is for a good cause; it raises money for “putting sheep on the mountain”

I’ve watched them over and over donate 5/10/50,000 dollars on top of what item they bought to do more good for that game department or for WSF project on the block.

I’ve watched guys lose an auction item, then add 10-20,000 to the final winning bid on top of what the winner bid. Because they wanted to support that project or WSF.

There are a lot of uninformed and truly ignorant theories put out in this discussion. Jealousy is as ugly as it gets.

There are SO many generous things that happen at the sheep show it is hard to list them all.

I’ve watched an elk hunt in NM go for over 1/2 million dollars; the proceeds fund an orphanage. Last year a 4 person Sitka Blacktail hunt on Kodiak was won for $350,000; the proceeds went to help start up a foundation for battered women. I’ve seen men buy very overpriced sheep hunts and give them to a disabled veteran.

It’s not the Johnson measuring contest the uninformed try to paint it as. Of course when men get together there is competition but all that does is make more money for conservation.

Those rich folks do a lot of good for the sheep and what I’ve seen with my own eyes tells me ONE auction tag per species does a lot more good than harm to the NA model.

Utah and their corrupt hundreds of tags stolen from sportsman is a very different story. Wyoming has WAY too many “commissioner” tags.

Arizona was doing it right. Idaho has one raffle and one auction sheep tag (and the raffle tag gets to about 66% of the auction tag when unit 11 is included; 25% when it is not), Montana and NM are one and one. Many other good systems. Hopefully AZ figures out how to make up that difference so all the good volunteers and AZGFD folks can keep doing as much good work as the were.

 

[MuleyFever]

It’s almost like the rich dudes aren’t just doing it to get their tag…

I’ve watched a guy at the sheep show buy over a dozen hunts in a weekend at the auction. Most for at least double what they could be bought for directly from the outfitter.

Why? Because it is for a good cause; it raises money for “putting sheep on the mountain”

I’ve watched them over and over donate 5/10/50,000 dollars on top of what item they bought to do more good for that game department or for WSF project on the block.

I’ve watched guys lose an auction item, then add 10-20,000 to the final winning bid on top of what the winner bid. Because they wanted to support that project or WSF.

There are a lot of uninformed and truly ignorant theories put out in this discussion. Jealousy is as ugly as it gets.

There are SO many generous things that happen at the sheep show it is hard to list them all.

I’ve watched an elk hunt in NM go for over 1/2 million dollars; the proceeds fund an orphanage. Last year a 4 person Sitka Blacktail hunt on Kodiak was won for $350,000; the proceeds went to help start up a foundation for battered women. I’ve seen men buy very overpriced sheep hunts and give them to a disabled veteran.

It’s not the Johnson measuring contest the uninformed try to paint it as. Of course when men get together there is competition but all that does is make more money for conservation.

Those rich folks do a lot of good for the sheep and what I’ve seen with my own eyes tells me ONE auction tag per species does a lot more good than harm to the NA model.

Utah and their corrupt hundreds of tags stolen from sportsman is a very different story. Wyoming has WAY too many “commissioner” tags.

Arizona was doing it right. Idaho has one raffle and one auction sheep tag (and the raffle tag gets to about 66% of the auction tag when unit 11 is included; 25% when it is not), Montana and NM are one and one. Many other good systems. Hopefully AZ figures out how to make up that difference so all the good volunteers and AZGFD folks can keep doing as much good work as the were.

Sorry, I am not on board.

You have watched people donate an extra $50k. That can be made up by adding $.15 or less to every license.

Money from tags going to orphanages or homes? Sorry, that's not the point of conservation. While great organizations to donate to they should not be taking money from conservation.

Your entire argument is over money that can easily, and I mean very easily, be made up for while giving everyone a shot at those tags.

And lastly, those rich people can still donate and get the tax write off if they are so passionate about conservation.

 

[Gobbler36]

What are you talking about? The Dept allocates tags to the non-profits to auction or raffle them. The money’s are turned over to the HPC which then allocates said money's for conservation projects. It’s all been shown in this thread many times over. It’s all there if you care to look. The Dept website is full of info if you care to look. No one wants to educate themselves but would rather call out the Dept absconding with the funds or something ridiculous like that.

Ok forward over the itemized list of spending

 

[Steve O]

Sorry, I am not on board.

You have watched people donate an extra $50k. That can be made up by adding $.15 or less to every license.

Money from tags going to orphanages or homes? Sorry, that's not the point of conservation. While great organizations to donate to they should not be taking money from conservation.

Your entire argument is over money that can easily, and I mean very easily, be made up for while giving everyone a shot at those tags.

And lastly, those rich people can still donate and get the tax write off if they are so passionate about conservation.

I’m not arguing man. I deal with people. People complain and people don’t take kindly to price hikes…you are a 1%er ; the other 99% are going to complain to high heaven and fight it at every level.

The system that HAS worked is being changed to something that MAY work and your theory is very altruistic and you are counting on the government and the public to make it happen. Piss poor combo in general. Plus, no public genius has made it his pet project so it is a theory with absolutely no chance of happening to get to the complaint stage…

I’m on the downward slope of my hunting life. I want to leave things better for my kids and hopefully grandkids. When I retire I’m moving to or sunbirding in AZ and a lot of my time is going to be spent working on these projects…selfishly I want there to be some actual money there to have projects to work on.

I don’t have a whole lot of faith in Joe Public as he generally takes a whole lot more than he gives.

My points with the illustrations other than the auction tags at the sheep show was to point out not everything is as evil and cut throat as it is portrayed. I was not comparing that to the auction tags and monies raised for the game departments and conservation efforts.

 

[BBob]

Logical fallacy “burden of proof”

Guy says no transparency

Another guy says there is plenty of information to the contrary and points to sources of information

Guy says show me the comprehensive list

The second guy can’t provide a single comprehensive list because it likely doesn’t exist

First guy likely will say that because second guy cannot supply the definitive comprehensive list of proof he (the one that made the initial claim) must be correct that there is no transparency

Typical internet. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

 

[MattB]

It’s almost like the rich dudes aren’t just doing it to get their tag…

I’ve watched a guy at the sheep show buy over a dozen hunts in a weekend at the auction. Most for at least double what they could be bought for directly from the outfitter.

Why? Because it is for a good cause; it raises money for “putting sheep on the mountain”

I’ve watched them over and over donate 5/10/50,000 dollars on top of what item they bought to do more good for that game department or for WSF project on the block.

I’ve watched guys lose an auction item, then add 10-20,000 to the final winning bid on top of what the winner bid. Because they wanted to support that project or WSF.

There are a lot of uninformed and truly ignorant theories put out in this discussion. Jealousy is as ugly as it gets.

There are SO many generous things that happen at the sheep show it is hard to list them all.

I’ve watched an elk hunt in NM go for over 1/2 million dollars; the proceeds fund an orphanage. Last year a 4 person Sitka Blacktail hunt on Kodiak was won for $350,000; the proceeds went to help start up a foundation for battered women. I’ve seen men buy very overpriced sheep hunts and give them to a disabled veteran.

It’s not the Johnson measuring contest the uninformed try to paint it as. Of course when men get together there is competition but all that does is make more money for conservation.

Those rich folks do a lot of good for the sheep and what I’ve seen with my own eyes tells me ONE auction tag per species does a lot more good than harm to the NA model.

Utah and their corrupt hundreds of tags stolen from sportsman is a very different story. Wyoming has WAY too many “commissioner” tags.

Arizona was doing it right. Idaho has one raffle and one auction sheep tag (and the raffle tag gets to about 66% of the auction tag when unit 11 is included; 25% when it is not), Montana and NM are one and one. Many other good systems. Hopefully AZ figures out how to make up that difference so all the good volunteers and AZGFD folks can keep doing as much good work as the were.

Not to mention the items won at auction and donated back to be re-auctioned. We used to auction off a U.S flag at a banquet of a group I was affiliated with, and it would often be won, donated back, and re-auctioned 5-6 times.

There is class envy in the U.S. and some are very quick to project their opinions of the wealthy and pursue policy based on their ignorance, even when it is objectively not in their best interest to do so.

 

[MattB]

Ok forward over the itemized list of spending

Or you could have just clicked on the link in post #23 and the information you are trying so hard to pretend doesn’t exist would have been right there for the world to see.

As much as I hate helping those who won’t help themselves, I’ve attached a link below so you don’t have to exert yourself by scrolling back a few pages to find it. You will have to click on the funding links in that page.

Habitat Partnership Committee - Arizona Game & Fish Department

Wildlife Habitat Issues and Improvements Habitat Partnership Committees (HPCs) are designed to facilitate local decision making regarding wildlife habitat issues and improvements, and act as a vehicle for partnership development … Continued

www.azgfd.com

 

[MuleyFever]

I’m not arguing man. I deal with people. People complain and people don’t take kindly to price hikes…you are a 1%er ; the other 99% are going to complain to high heaven and fight it at every level.

The system that HAS worked is being changed to something that MAY work and your theory is very altruistic and you are counting on the government and the public to make it happen. Piss poor combo in general. Plus, no public genius has made it his pet project so it is a theory with absolutely no chance of happening to get to the complaint stage…

I’m on the downward slope of my hunting life. I want to leave things better for my kids and hopefully grandkids. When I retire I’m moving to or sunbirding in AZ and a lot of my time is going to be spent working on these projects…selfishly I want there to be some actual money there to have projects to work on.

I don’t have a whole lot of faith in Joe Public as he generally takes a whole lot more than he gives.

My points with the illustrations other than the auction tags at the sheep show was to point out not everything is as evil and cut throat as it is portrayed. I was not comparing that to the auction tags and monies raised for the game departments and conservation efforts.

All I am saying is that the idea that there wont be anymore money because the tags aren't auctioned is false. If the department wants to they can easily make up the difference from what the auctions brought in.

 

[cuerro viejo]

All I am saying is that the idea that there wont be anymore money because the tags aren't auctioned is false. If the department wants to they can easily make up the difference from what the auctions brought in.

losing one AZ auction sheep tag is the equilvant to adding 1700+- to all 146 sheep tags In AZ. 2 tags would be $3400 add on to all sheep tags

I look really dont look forward to seeing the additional burden put on the average joe to make up the conservation funding, because it will never happen. Thus why auction tags where born.

 

[HuntHarder]

losing one AZ auction sheep tag is the equilvant to adding 1700+- to all 146 sheep tags In AZ. 2 tags would be $3400 add on to all sheep tags

I look really dont look forward to seeing the additional burden put on the average joe to make up the conservation funding, because it will never happen. Thus why auction tags where born.

LOL, or subtract the raffle revenue from typical auction revenue and then add 1$ to each hunting application to make up the difference? I mean, there were 180,000+ applications received just for Elk and Antelope in 2024. The sky is not falling and conservation projects will continue I promise...

 

[cuerro viejo]

LOL, or subtract the raffle revenue from typical auction revenue and then add 1$ to each hunting application to make up the difference? I mean, there were 180,000+ applications received just for Elk and Antelope in 2024. The sky is not falling and conservation projects will continue I promise...

yelp, just keep raising those application and tags costs exponentially. Don't forget the adjustment for inflation.

Like I said times coming where the average joe will be priced out at the Credit card counter

 

[sneaky]

Do all of you who hate these tags being sold yell at people at red lights for driving vehicles you can't afford as well? Premise is the same. Jealousy. Being mad at someone for being successful in life and having discretionary funds to spend on things they want to do is no way to live.

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[BBob]

Do all of you who hate these tags being sold yell at people at red lights for driving vehicles you can't afford as well?

I don’t hate the people that buy them, I do dislike what they have become. The whole outfitter entourage thing even beyond the auction tags can get pretty bad too. I wish that could all go away as well.

 

[Steve O]

I don’t hate the people that buy them, I do dislike what they have become. The whole outfitter entourage thing even beyond the auction tags can get pretty bad too. I wish that could all go away as well.

That is not a pretty picture, I agree. Where have you seen that stuff? I’d bet a whole lot of money it isn’t on Jimmy’s social media, is it? Or any other rich dude’s social media or YouTube channel.

All I’ve seen evidence of these Gov tag hunts are OUTFITTERS promoting their business to make more of the almighty dollar…

Maybe the problem isn’t actually the rich dudes spending 50-400 times the street value for a tag but the dudes trying to become rich dudes off their association with said rich dude?

The outfitters are the problem IMO.

 

[BBob]

That is not a pretty picture, I agree. Where have you seen that stuff?

If you’ve lived and hunted here in AZ and NM for long enough you’ve no doubt encountered it. It exists and it’s a PIA if you do happen to come across it. Like most things you deal with it and move on.

All I’ve seen evidence of these Gov tag hunts are OUTFITTERS promoting their business to make more of the almighty dollar…

Maybe the problem isn’t actually the rich dudes spending 50-400 times the street value for a tag but the dudes trying to become rich dudes off their association with said rich dude?

The outfitters are the problem IMO.

I wholly agree with this!

 

[Steve O]

Last year I sat at table at the Life Member breakfast with the rich dude who bought the Montana tag two years ago. I pay pretty good attention at the auctions and I chit chatted with him. He built an incredibly successful business moving dirt with heavy equipment. He started as an operator of said heavy equipment. American DREAM stuff. Now he spends his money hunting and building churches for pretty much nothing. Never ever would have talked about any of it or his awesome Montana hunt if I’d not have probed. I’ve met dozens of these guys at the Sheep Show and they almost all have a similar story. Heck, the hate poster boy, Jimmy himself doesn’t usually go to most of them as to not make a spectacle. I’ve got a buddy who has guided JJ one on one and he has nothing but good to say about the man, and I’d trust my buddy with my life.

There are bad apples in every group, I don’t agree with making these guys doing good with their excess funds the bad guys, specifically in the old Arizona model and those like it. Utah is a problem…the hate would be much better pointed at that mess.

 

[Steve O]

If you’ve lived and hunted here in AZ and NM for long enough you’ve no doubt encountered it. It exists and it’s a PIA if you do happen to come across it. Like most things you deal with it and move on.

You misunderstood. I've seen plenty it. I’ve dealt with USO bullys in AZ. II’ve dealt with MB on a hunt in Utah. The point is the rich guys aren’t promoting all these posses and highlighting it and bringing attention to it, the outfitters are.