Are Trap Bar Deadlifts the way to go?

[Poser]

I've videoed myself from a side angle doing deads. form is pretty solid up to about the 80% 1RM range, then it starts to degrade. I think part of my issue is that my hamstrings are wound up really tight and I wind up hinging more at the waste than most people. I have to pull back hard against my shins dragging the bar up my legs to try to prevent my hams and quads from wanting to fully extend prematurely before my back can keep up with the pull. hope this shit makes any sense.
Light weight high reps will aggravate it. Light weight moderate reps, no noticeable problems
5x5 @ 225 is what I can do without lingering pain
Its never a pain during the lift, its pain for several days after, (dull deep ache)

What you are describing (dragging them bar up your shins) is proper technique.

Tight hamstrings (up to a reasonable point) are actually a good thing for deadlifts. Muscles that are over stretched and loose aren’t as efficient for strength.

My experience is that the vast majority of pain associated with compound lifts is due to improper technique. There are of course exceptions, but if the trap bars and sumo dls aren’t causing compression related pain, unless you have a slipped disc of some type, I suspect your pain is due to lack of proper deadlift setup, especially as it relates to lumbar extension and maintaining a tight and erect spine.

What program are you you following that has you doing 5x5 deadlifts? That’s a lot of deadlift volume. I seldom do more than 15 work set deadlift reps in a week. 25 reps work set reps in one workout is a *lot* of deadlift volume. A novice can easily progress on 1 set of 5 and most intermediates can progress weekly on 10-15 total work set reps, spread out of a week. Doing 25 work set reps, assuming that is a reasonably heavy weight for you, is likely leading to a degradation of technique and, unless you have been lifting consistently for years, is almost certainly volume overkill for deadlifts.

Also, to be sure, you aren’t bouncing these deadlifts off the floor between reps are you? You are resting your back, taking a deep breath, getting tight and pulling the weight off the floor for all of your reps?

 

[jakelogsdon]

Do you have access to a reverse hyper?


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Yes, for sure. I just want to lift heavy shit bro. Hahahaha.

 

[Tpeterson18]

5x5 is fine on volume for any compound lift. Even at percentages. For healthy folk.


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[jakelogsdon]

What you are describing (dragging them bar up your shins) is proper technique.

Tight hamstrings (up to a reasonable point) are actually a good thing for deadlifts. Muscles that are over stretched and loose aren’t as efficient for strength.

My experience is that the vast majority of pain associated with compound lifts is due to improper technique. There are of course exceptions, but if the trap bars and sumo dls aren’t causing compression related pain, unless you have a slipped disc of some type, I suspect your pain is due to lack of proper deadlift setup, especially as it relates to lumbar extension and maintaining a tight and erect spine.

What program are you you following that has you doing 5x5 deadlifts? That’s a lot of deadlift volume. I seldom do more than 15 work set deadlift reps in a week. 25 reps work set reps in one workout is a *lot* of deadlift volume. A novice can easily progress on 1 set of 5 and most intermediates can progress weekly on 10-15 total work set reps, spread out of a week. Doing 25 work set reps, assuming that is a reasonably heavy weight for you, is likely leading to a degradation of technique and, unless you have been lifting consistently for years, is almost certainly volume overkill for deadlifts.

Also, to be sure, you aren’t bouncing these deadlifts off the floor between reps are you? You are resting your back, taking a deep breath, getting tight and pulling the weight off the floor for all of your reps?

I just used the 5x5 @ 225 as a reference for weight/reps to related pain. Not really part of any programming but at the same time I don't personally believe that is a lot of volume. 55 reps at 225 is a lot for me personally
I've been lifting for around 20 years, only after my incident did I ever experience these issues with the DL

 

[Tpeterson18]

Yes, for sure. I just want to lift heavy shit bro. Hahahaha.

Haha I appreciate that mindset for sure. Most under utilized equipment for lifting heavy though. I had some weightlifters with similar injuries. Banded good mornings, reverse hypers, and lots of posterior chain accessory stuff helped them get back on a platform.


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[jakelogsdon]

Haha I appreciate that mindset for sure. Most under utilized equipment for lifting heavy though. I had some weightlifters with similar injuries. Banded good mornings, reverse hypers, and lots of posterior chain accessory stuff helped them get back on a platform.


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This might be my path forward

 

[Tpeterson18]

We used DL as an accessory lift in weightlifting but obviously with snatch and clean jerk, pulling is heavily important. Having a big back in WL is so important, look at the Chinese and even the Russians regardless of doping. I'll try and find a video for you on the banded good mornings before I try to explain it.


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[Tpeterson18]

Also, sumo is still a great lift to train. Sometimes biomechanics just makes it that way. I still trained both for adducter/abducter benefits. It's still cool to pull 600 sumo.


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[jakelogsdon]

I'm very familiar with the accessory work you're speaking of. Just usually don't like doing it. But if it will help, ill suck it up and do the sissy shit. hahahaha

 

[Tpeterson18]

Yeah that's part of the reason I settled on the sport of Weightlifting, only to find out accessory work was almost as important as training the lifts. Anyway, lots of good advice on here but do what works for you and keeps you active. Hard to think about your goals that you want from training when weights are in front of you. Juggernaut Training Systems has a ton of good information on the subject, and please don't use T Nation for..... Well, anything really.
Max and Chad are some of the best at their craft and have background in almost all of the strength sports.

Sometimes nice to hear it from a guy in a video with production vs. retired weightlifter on hunting forum


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[jakelogsdon]

I tracked Westside Barbell for a long time. I know the Juggernaut guys dont like westside but it worked pretty good for me and my goals

 

[Tpeterson18]

I mean you can't deny what Louie has done for ppl and the sport of PL. A good reason why I do not follow one "coaches" specific ideas as holy Grail for any sport.


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[ScoutOut]

I agree the Trap Bar is not the same movement and incorporates different muscles. As previously suggested consider farmers carries along with the trap bar lift.
At the end of the day as long as you are lifting something heavy and putting it down is better than sitting on the couch.

 

[307]

I believe trap bar is far superior when it comes to risk:reward.

You can hinge or squat with a trap bar just as cleanly as you can with a barbell.

The barbell deadlift is unnecessarily risky for many/most athletes. The exception to this is the people involved in barbell sports (WL and PL).

 

[Donk]

I like deadlifts. But I listened to this and my back has felt really good lately. Might be something to consider.

 

[Coach Chris]

Pay no attention Oberst

 

[Coach Chris]

I agree the Trap Bar is not the same movement and incorporates different muscles.

It doesn't "incorporate different muscles". LOL!
Because the load moves through your centerline it loads your quads more than a straight bar deadlift variation does.

 

[Poser]

I believe trap bar is far superior when it comes to risk:reward.

You can hinge or squat with a trap bar just as cleanly as you can with a barbell.

The barbell deadlift is unnecessarily risky for many/most athletes. The exception to this is the people involved in barbell sports (WL and PL).

If you deadlift a barbell correctly, there is no substantial risk. Also, if you look at the available injury data, as much shifty form that exists out there In The world including the untold thousands of Crossfitters bouncing deadlifts off the floor, the lack of understanding about bracing/valsalva technique or placing the back into extension, there are actually surprisingly few deadlift injuries at weights of less than 600# for men. I’m not sure what that number is for women, but very few men will ever deadlift 600# anyway.

Also, again, the trap bar is inferior at training the posterior chain. Given that is arguably the most important and practical chain of muscles in the body, that fact alone makes the trap bar inferior. The unwillingness to learn and teach proper technique is a fairly poor excuse to justify the inferior nature of the trap bar as it relates to the benefits of the barbell deadlift. Especially since the deadlift is probably the easiest barbell lift to learn and to teach.

 

[Krieg Hetzen]

If your back needs time to recover you could give low bar squats and front squats a try. Low bar hits the posterior chain more than a high bar squat and front squat feels like all mid/upper back for me (they need to catch up to my legs, ymmv). It wont net the same benefits of conventional pulling but between trap bar DLs, low bar squats and front squats you should get some good back work done. You could also try to lift heavy with the sumo DL or trap bar DL and use your conventional DL to run more of a midrange rep scheme (3x10 or something, treat it like a T2 not a T1). Lastly, if your mobility allows, you can attempt to do stiff leg deadlifts and Romanian deadlifts with the trap bar. It really awkward at first but because you aren’t pulling the bar into you and eliminating the horizontal movements it takes a lot to keep everything stable. Just start much lower than you think you need. It’s more important to be active than doing the most optimal exercises at all time unless you compete or a super stubborn about doing it perfect (like me trying to learn proper front rack position, damn shoulder mobility). Hope you find something that works!

 

[*zap*]

Keep the chest up/shoulders back thru the movement and keep the bar in contact with the legs. Rip-a-tone's technique is an excellent way to learn proper set up.