Are Trap Bar Deadlifts the way to go?

[jakelogsdon]

Due to injury, I have had to switch from a conventional barbell DL to a Sumo DL. I'm wondering if I can get the same feel/workout from a trap bar as I used to get from an Olympic style barbell DL. The Sumo DL isn't cutting it for me anymore. Looking for alternatives that wont break me down

 

[LongWayAround]

I firmly believe that the trap bar is the best way to build full body strength and it is much more joint friendly than conventional squat/deadlift. I've been preaching it for years but it usually is disregarded I feel. The best part is that you can adjust your foot position and whether you hinge or squat at the hips. It's also great for farmer's carries. The more appropriate hand positioning is better for the development of your upper back muscles, reduced risk of bicep damage, and the weight moves inline with your joint stacking, as opposed to pulling it in front of your legs or having a bar on your back. The compromise is that you lose some posterior chain activation to a more quadricep dominant lift but you can get that back with rdl's or glute-ham raises.

My standard trap bar workout is to work up to 5ish heavy sets of about 5 reps each. Then, drop the weight and do a few high rep sets of straight leg style deadlifts with a slight bend to the knee ("soft" knees). After that, I pull bent rows from the floor- when the bar hits your ass, lower it back down.

I typically use 35lb plates to simulate a squat type lift or deficit deadlift (depending on how I choose to position myself). For my rows, I often use 25lb plates to increase range of motion.

That's my basic caffeinated trap bar spiel. If you have any questions or thoughts I would be happy to clarify my points. I'm not a certified trainer or the like, just a guy who's spent a lot of hours picking heavy shit up.

When I was at my peak strength, I would often pull 100 reps at 200+ and one evening I hit 40 at 400+. I've slipped some since then but am working back it. Using the trap bar as my primary implement, I built a conventional deadlift of 500+ and conventional squat of multiple reps at 400. My goals have shifted and I'll probably never do that again, but for a guy weighing 185lb it felt pretty damn good.

 

[Poser]

You will not get the same benefits from a trap bar. The benefits of a barbell DL is the shearing effect across the back causing your spinal erectors to work hard to keep the spine straight. *this is what makes your back strong*

A trap bar DL is closer to a reverse squat as the back is more upright. You just are not stressing the the spinal erectors the same way. If you just do trap bar DL, use the lower handles as you will have to bend over more. Everyone uses the elevated handles and those are bullshit.

In the end, I do not consider a trap bar to be a substitute for a deadlift. I think it more useful as a farmer carry, strongman type device, but it’s not a deadlift.

 

[jakelogsdon]

I'm missing my conventional DL and attempting to replicate it the best I can with a blown up back. Even doing a few lighter sets at 225 hurts me. Sumo doesnt cause any pain but It doesnt feel like it strengthens my back much either. Maybe my heavy pulling days are over.

 

[LongWayAround]

I always appreciate your input on these topics, Poser.

I did not account for the bars with two handle heights in my post. I was only referencing those bars with a single height. You are correct about the high handles being bullshit, it's like the guy who keeps loading up the bar in a squat rack but he pushing his knees out three inches and calling it a rep.

I would also concur with you that it does not have the same effect on the back but I believe that also makes it a "safer" alternative by reducing that shearing effect.

Definitely a give and take situation, but overall my opinion is that the trap bar is underappreciated.

 

[Poser]

I always appreciate your input on these topics, Poser.

I did not account for the bars with two handle heights in my post. I was only referencing those bars with a single height. You are correct about the high handles being bullshit, it's like the guy who keeps loading up the bar in a squat rack but he pushing his knees out three inches and calling it a rep.

I would also concur with you that it does not have the same effect on the back but I believe that also makes it a "safer" alternative by reducing that shearing effect.

Definitely a give and take situation, but overall my opinion is that the trap bar is underappreciated.

I’m going to disagree with you strongly on this subject. I think the trap bar is severely overrated and largely employed by people looking for an excuse not to deadlift and have to deadlift properly. I will agree that the trap bar is more self correcting in terms of inherit technique but the barbell is the most simple barbell movement to learn and most people can acquire the proper technique within 5 minutes with proper instruction and desire/willingness to learn.

 

[LongWayAround]

Right on, I'll agree to disagree. I see it more as a tool in the box than a way to avoid your other tools. Good points to consider anyhow.

Here's some food for thought from others.

Search results for 'Trap bar' - T NATION

The Community for Enhanced Fitness

www.t-nation.com

 

[Desk Jockey]

If you’ve got lower back issues but still want to pick up heavy stuff, go with what works. Sumo is good. Trap bar is good to. Focus a little on technique. As others rightly point out you can get more quad activation and less posterior chain from a trap bar, but that can happen on a barbell too.

There seems to be a good number of studies that suggest heavy lifting with load bearing skeletal muscles is a great way to boost longevity as well as strength and fitness. Don’t let someone else’s dogmatic views about bars and equipment keep you from doing what works for you. Much better to do what you can than not lift heavy. Bottom line is, if it is medically advisable given your limitations, finding some version that works for you is the right answer.

BTW - read a study about the new Army fitness test, which now includes trap bar deadlift, that said they found trap bar was less prone to injury and a better indicator of overall strength. So there is that.

 

[*zap*]

T-Bar is excellant for heavy/shorter farmer carries.
For a dead lift a straight bar gives more grip width options and if you drag the bar up your legs(as you should, imo) it eliminates any horizontal plane travel that you get with the T-bar. T-bar makes it easier for a beginner to add weight while maintaining somewhat good form but the goal (imo) should be to get the form absolutely 100% using lighter weight before going heavier.
Deadlift is very high on the list of strength training exercise's that are done with poor form. I do not think the trap bar helps people learn to execute better dead lift form.
It may suck but if your new, older or have injuries to deal with it may take a while to get the form down 100% and the strength in the right areas to execute proper form. Using accessory lifts to gain strength in the right areas and learn proper form is a good way to get prepared for this harder to execute correctly lift.
Glute bridge, good mornings and rdl's will train your body to do a proper hip hinge and then advance to dl's.
The muscle groups used in a dead lift will also depend on what hip position you start the lift in. Start with low hip position and you use more legs, Start with high hip position and you use less legs. With low hip start the bar is already to your knees before you transfer to hip hinge so I would imagine there is less stress on the lower back/glutes.
In order to finish with chest up/shoulders back while dragging the bar up your legs vs finishing and then putting your chest up and shoulders back you need to be strong in the correct areas or you will be all caved in up top during the lift which negates the dead lifts benefits to core/lower back and upper body(posture).
That is where preparing with accessory lifts and starting light with a slow progression to heavier shines.
I am no expert and these are just my opinions at this point in time.....Both ripitone and athleanx have very good instructional videos that offer somewhat different correct form options.

 

[Poser]

I should add: Obviously, if you are injured, you do what you can. Picking up a trap bar is certainly better than picking up nothing. I wasn’t able to squat or deadlift recently for a couple of weeks due to a knee injury. I did some half ass RDLs with 95# on the bar and some back raises for a couple of workouts because it was all I could do for my posterior chain and better than nothing. I was primarily looking at the discussion of being “is the trap bar = to the deadlift” and since it lacks the shearing effect or effective involvement of the hamstrings, and also since squatting involves more stress on the quads, on paper, it is is a inferior lift. But, you do what you can do.

I am glad that the military is starting to focus more on strength training, however, I am also convinced that someone landed a big fat DOD contract to provide trap bars. You’d have a hard time convincing me that modern soldiers carrying huge loadouts wouldn’t benefit more from stronger vs. weaker posterior chains, but at least they are getting some posterior strengthening vs. when it was 100% calisthenics based with no posterior chain focus at all

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Im not a expert but have been lifting for 15 years,i like the t bar deadlift but it isnt close to a deadlift.Dont believe everything you read on t nation !

 

[LostArra]

Mr Rippetoe has a way with words

Why the Trap Bar is Completely Useless | Mark Rippetoe

Mark Rippetoe talks about why the trap bar is a poor and unsafe substitute for the barbell for pulling off the floor.

startingstrength.com

I have no opinion. Never used a trap bar.

 

[Coach Chris]

This winter I have been using the Trap bar deadlift as my primary lower body strength exercise. I've been shoveling snow for hours on end most days. Trap bar gives me the most bang for the buck with my limited time and energy.
In terms of overload I can pull more with the trap bar than I can with a straight bar.
This is the bar I use

Rackable Trap Bar

Athletes far and wide love the trap bar - and for good reason! The design of the trap bar makes it perfect for deadlifts, shrugs, and farmer's carries. Rowing movements seem to have more balance and even overhead presses can be performed with great results. The Rackable Trap Bar can do al...

www.elitefts.com

I can load it significantly heavier than a standard trap bar
The science -

Trap Bar Deadlifts are Underrated

Trap bar deadlifts allow for more flexibility in the movement, higher velocity and power output, and are safer and easier to learn for a lot of people.

www.strongerbyscience.com

Why is the hex bar deadlift valuable for training athletes?

If you enjoy this article, you will like my first book (see on Amazon).

medium.com

 

[Pscott19]

I firmly believe that the trap bar is the best way to build full body strength and it is much more joint friendly than conventional squat/deadlift. I've been preaching it for years but it usually is disregarded I feel. The best part is that you can adjust your foot position and whether you hinge or squat at the hips. It's also great for farmer's carries. The more appropriate hand positioning is better for the development of your upper back muscles, reduced risk of bicep damage, and the weight moves inline with your joint stacking, as opposed to pulling it in front of your legs or having a bar on your back. The compromise is that you lose some posterior chain activation to a more quadricep dominant lift but you can get that back with rdl's or glute-ham raises.

My standard trap bar workout is to work up to 5ish heavy sets of about 5 reps each. Then, drop the weight and do a few high rep sets of straight leg style deadlifts with a slight bend to the knee ("soft" knees). After that, I pull bent rows from the floor- when the bar hits your ass, lower it back down.

I typically use 35lb plates to simulate a squat type lift or deficit deadlift (depending on how I choose to position myself). For my rows, I often use 25lb plates to increase range of motion.

That's my basic caffeinated trap bar spiel. If you have any questions or thoughts I would be happy to clarify my points. I'm not a certified trainer or the like, just a guy who's spent a lot of hours picking heavy shit up.

When I was at my peak strength, I would often pull 100 reps at 200+ and one evening I hit 40 at 400+. I've slipped some since then but am working back it. Using the trap bar as my primary implement, I built a conventional deadlift of 500+ and conventional squat of multiple reps at 400. My goals have shifted and I'll probably never do that again, but for a guy weighing 185lb it felt pretty damn good.

 

[Poser]

 

[Tpeterson18]

I'm just curious what your injury is that sumo is comfortable and conventional isn't? Or did someone tell you conventional is bad for your injury? I skimmed lots of the advice on here but didn't see it, so I apologize if you covered that.


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[jakelogsdon]

L5-S1 is f@cked. Take my word for it, Conventional is painful, sumo is much more manageable. There are likely other contributors that make conventional painful to me (anatomy, form, strength of surrounding muscles, ect...) It is what it is.

 

[Poser]

L5-S1 is f@cked. Take my word for it, Conventional is painful, sumo is much more manageable. There are likely other contributors that make conventional painful to me (anatomy, form, strength of surrounding muscles, ect...) It is what it is.

Have you filmed yourself with angle where you can see your back (filming DLs from the front is worthless for analysis) doing a conventional DL? I would be surplus to see what your lumbar extension looks like under load of a workset.

Also, does it hurt with any weight? I.e. Does pulling 135# conventional hurt or is it once you hit a certain weight?

 

[jakelogsdon]

Have you filmed yourself with angle where you can see your back (filming DLs from the front is worthless for analysis) doing a conventional DL? I would be surplus to see what your lumbar extension looks like under load of a workset.

Also, does it hurt with any weight? I.e. Does pulling 135# conventional hurt or is it once you hit a certain weight?

I've videoed myself from a side angle doing deads. form is pretty solid up to about the 80% 1RM range, then it starts to degrade. I think part of my issue is that my hamstrings are wound up really tight and I wind up hinging more at the waste than most people. I have to pull back hard against my shins dragging the bar up my legs to try to prevent my hams and quads from wanting to fully extend prematurely before my back can keep up with the pull. hope this shit makes any sense.
Light weight high reps will aggravate it. Light weight moderate reps, no noticeable problems
5x5 @ 225 is what I can do without lingering pain
Its never a pain during the lift, its pain for several days after, (dull deep ache)

 

[Tpeterson18]

Do you have access to a reverse hyper?


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