Are Berger failures real?

[Ryan Avery]

Hell the old blue Barnes X was designed to pencil through!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mtnwrunner]

Well, all my Bergers failed..........
The animals failed to get up.

It always seems that people love them or hate them. In my opinion and experiences, they just plain rock and I have never lost an animal to them. That includes 6.5, 7mm, 30, and 338 calibers. All one can do is try them and you'll either like them or not but you will prefer the gutless field dressing method.

Randy

 

[Broz]

Most "failed bullet" stories are from individuals that did not recover a bullet.

Hell the old blue Barnes X was designed to pencil through!

No truer words were ever spoken

 

[maninthemaze]

I read Broz mention in a post somewhere about making sure the tips are cleaned out using a wire drill bit. After last year's bullet failure, I made sure all my bullet tips were clean. About 20 out of 50 had something in the tip. I haven't had a chance to test them on an animal yet. But hopefully it helps. Also, I'll be shooting the 195's in my 28 this year.

About last years failure....I shot an antelope that was bedded quartering towards me. The bullet entered between the neck/ left shoulder and exited the right hind quarter. There wasn't a bullet to recover. Now the bullet ruined his day as he never stood up. And I only call it a failure because it penciled through. This was shot with my 7wsm shooting the 180 Hunting VLD with 2900fps muzzle velocity. Antelope was at 482 yards.

Just my 2 cents and worth the price charged.

 

[odin0226]

I guess I failed to mention that I had a partner on spotter (95mm ATX) that saw blood coming from exit hole lung area first shot. The second shot , 1/4 too animal impacted the near side shoulder brisket junction. Both ideal entrance locations. That's 4 tons of energy collectively collectively without a recovery. Ive used the 215,s with a lot better results

 

[odin0226]

Not trying to get in a pissing match, just making a point that lower impact velocities may result in less than desirable performance that's typical of bergers fragmenting design.

I also use the 225 gn TTSX in my 338 win, dark timber gun. Knowing its terminal performance , I always aim for shoulder

 

[HuntHarder]

I guess I failed to mention that I had a partner on spotter (95mm ATX) that saw blood coming from exit hole lung area first shot. The second shot , 1/4 too animal impacted the near side shoulder brisket junction. Both ideal entrance locations. That's 4 tons of energy collectively collectively without a recovery. Ive used the 215,s with a lot better results

Shennanigans..... Bullet thru lungs = dead bull.

 

[maninthemaze]

Shennanigans..... Bullet thru lungs = dead bull.

Definitely a dead bull. Maybe 5 miles away in the next county, but definitely dead.

Just my 2 cents and worth the price charged.

 

[odin0226]

Agreed it died no doubt , brother punched his tag as well without recovering. Point is, would a 215 perform better? I think maybe...I'm gonna do some testing at 1k on gel this summer to attempt to quantify my suspicions

 

[Broz]

Exit from a 215 Berger on a soft antelope at 1285 yards. Impact velocity roughly 1675 fps , Impact energy 1340 lbs.

Exit on a cow elk at 112 yards. Impact velocity 2972 fps, Impact energy 4217 lbs.

With the 30 Nosler sending 215's from a 9 twist at 3100 MV I was concerned the added mv and twist would aggravate a bullet that already expands rapidly.

Now with several elk down in one shot from the 30 Nos. My concerns are all behind me. This includes two bulls with quartering shots. One facing one leaving. One took 3 steps of went a few yards. Both fell dead.

The 215 Bergers still amaze me as a great hunting bullet at all distances. You cant have it all in one bullet, but the 215 is as close as I have seen from any bullet.

Jeff

 

[odin0226]

Broz, thanks for sharing. I have also smashed a bull with the 215 with outstanding results. My dumb a.. Loaded 230,s in an effort to gain a little BC and slow the bullet down. Hindsight is always 20/20 . I will run the 215 next year @ 3200 fps

 

[Broz]

Broz, thanks for sharing. I have also smashed a bull with the 215 with outstanding results. My dumb a.. Loaded 230,s in an effort to gain a little BC and slow the bullet down. Hindsight is always 20/20 . I will run the 215 next year @ 3200 fps

Well, you may not agree, and I respect that. But If I had a chambering that would run a 215 to 3200, I would be loading 230's. We have a strong track record with the 230's too. But it was mostly from a 300 win mag with a MV of 2775 fps.

Jeff

 

[SURVEYOR]

I'm done with Berger yes they shoot great but I'm not impressed with their performance on game. I loaded 50 215gr hybrid for my 300 win for this season, so far this year the results are:
1 wt doe double lung 75 yards - 100 yard recovery
1 moose soaked up 5 rounds in shoulder and lungs, finished with a 325wsm and accubond. Initial shots were 130 yards I picked a pile of copper out of the skin on entrance side while skinning. Lots of internal bruising with poor penetration
2 antelope at about 275yards both took a few steps and laid down when shot again I picked copper from Just under skin by entrance hole
1 Muley buck 250 yards again copper just under skin on entrance side took 1 shoulder shot 1 lung shot
1 TX heart shot coyote at 200ish yards. -gutted, literally
The 1st shots on the muley and the moose broke the shoulders from the impact energy, not from the bullet, nothing penetrated the scapula on either but should have
I feel that these bullets are too fragile at least for the ranges I've used them at.
But hey what do I know

 

[PathFinder]

I'm done with Berger yes they shoot great but I'm not impressed with their performance on game. I loaded 50 215gr hybrid for my 300 win for this season, so far this year the results are:
1 wt doe double lung 75 yards - 100 yard recovery
1 moose soaked up 5 rounds in shoulder and lungs, finished with a 325wsm and accubond. Initial shots were 130 yards I picked a pile of copper out of the skin on entrance side while skinning. Lots of internal bruising with poor penetration
2 antelope at about 275yards both took a few steps and laid down when shot again I picked copper from Just under skin by entrance hole
1 Muley buck 250 yards again copper just under skin on entrance side took 1 shoulder shot 1 lung shot
1 TX heart shot coyote at 200ish yards. -gutted, literally
The 1st shots on the muley and the moose broke the shoulders from the impact energy, not from the bullet, nothing penetrated the scapula on either but should have
I feel that these bullets are too fragile at least for the ranges I've used them at.
But hey what do I know

Apparently not much. No way on this earth a mule deer scapula will stop a 215 Hybrid out of a 300 WM. Even a 6.5 Creedmoor will break both shoulders and exit. All of the deer I shot with the 215 out of a 300 WM were very clean kills. Pencil hole in, fist sized exit, jelly for vital organs, and very short recoveries.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[odin0226]

Experince with 230 in my rifle is 0/1 recovery, MV 3030; I completely understand your reasoning , hince me using it. I'm going to do some balistic gel testing this summer at 1K; for my own gratification. That will give me quantifiable results to aide in my decision.

 

[Broz]

Another cow elk at 400ish yards today with a 215 from the 30 Nosler. Right in the crease. No exit but broken far side rib. She hunched up with the hit turned 180 and sprinted 30 yards and piled up dead. We lost less meat than a 99 cent McDonald's hamburger, but I did loose 3 or 4 pounds packing her up and over the hill. Our results with this bullet remain untainted.

Jeff

 

[odin0226]

What's your count with this bullet on critters now?

 

[Broz]

What's your count with this bullet on critters now?

Oh crap, I lost count. I think the 300 win was at 34 all one shot kills mostly elk and that was mid last season. Now the 30 Nosler is at about 6 elk so far this season, and a wolf. Then the ones people I help have taken with their rifles.

Jeff

 

[odin0226]

Kinda hard to make an argument against the 215 with those #s; given the title of this thread. I am curious as to how the bullet would hold up @3200 fps , ive read the hybrid was partially created due to nose deformation at velocities exceeding 3000 in the VLD line

 

[Broz]

Kinda hard to make an argument against the 215 with those #s; given the title of this thread. I am curious as to how the bullet would hold up @3200 fps , ive read the hybrid was partially created due to nose deformation at velocities exceeding 3000 in the VLD line

All I can say is it has performed for me at MV's of 2900, 3000 and now 3100. Plus some friends are running them in some 10 twist 308 wins and say they make the little 308 an elk hammer.