Anyone Go Through Back Surgery?

[Marbles]

When you have a minute, can you offer a quick synopsis of the methods? Seems like a mess of confounding variables, primarily psych, would make this challenging (and has been the reason for long standing debate on the topic).

While somewhat encouraging, it seems to oppose earlier similar research on the topic which found no clear link.

The authors touch on prior studies and how there are conflicting results in regards to the relationship between LBP, obesity, and sex.

Sorry for the choppy summary below. As I don't have a right to distribute the study it feels wrong to post a bunch of information from it on a public form.

Methods

"Selection Criteria
"Studies were included in the meta-analysis if they fulfilled the following criteria: (1) cohort studies in which LBP incidence was an outcome; (2) clear definition of overweight and obesity as defined by the BMI in kg/m2; and (3) reported effect estimates of the relative risk, hazard ratio, or odds ratio (OR) with 95% confidence intervals (CI). Articles were excluded by the following criteria: (1) duplicate of previous publication; (2) reviews, comments, meeting abstracts, or other kinds of literature; and (3) case-control studies or cross-sectional studies.

"Assessment of Methodological Quality
"The Newcastle-Ottawa Scale was used to assess the quality of included studies.12 The Newcastle-Ottawa Scale is based on 3 major components: selection of the study groups (0–4 stars), comparability of cases and controls (0–2 stars), or cohorts, and ascertainment of exposure or outcome (0–3 stars). A study awarded Z6 stars is considered a high-quality study."

"Large number of participants from cohort studies, allowing a much greater possibility of reasonable conclusions."

"Incorporated a maximal bias adjustment in the pooled estimate; thus, the effect of potential confounders was minimized."

"Most included studies were adjusted for potential confounders." There is always the possibility of unaccounted for confounders.

I have not read the studies that the meta-analysis used. The authors did discuss how even when excluding groups of data based on confounding factors there was not a statistically significant change in the association with overweight and LBP. Adding credibility to the result. There was also stronger correlation between obesity and LBP than over weight and LBP, this remained consistent as well.

Of course correlation does not prove causation, but when combined with deductive reasoning it does provide an avenue worth pursuing in the absence of better information.

Similarly, this does not demonstrate that reducing BMI corrects LBP (which was not examined here). I feel weight loss is worth recommending, both because it could help with back pain through several mechanisms and for a multitude of other health reasons.

 

[Newtosavage]

Hey All -

Wondering if anyone here has had to undergo back surgery? After working out and continued PT looks like I'm going to need a discectomy or disk replacement in my lumbar L5S1... (Still more testing to help with decision). I'm young which is the concerning part (Turn 38 in Sept). Most likely from all the years of Division 1 sports, weights, and active life, and office..... Going to have to forego my Elk hunt this September it think.

Anyway, if you have any experience would really appreciate anything you'd like to share. Procedure, recovery, were you able to get back to active lifestyle... etc. Not the most uplifting subject, feel free to PM me.

I want to get back to posting pics of hunts! Thanks for your help/advice!

Sean

I ruptured a disc 3 1/2 years ago and had surgery to remove the portion that was sharing the same space with my spinal cord, on my 47th birthday of all things. It turned out to be a pretty good birthday present. I didn't realize until that surgery just how many problems I'd been dealing with since my 20's that were most likely bulging disks.

I rehabbed slowly over the next 6 months and was able to go elk hunting in some pretty steep and high altitude stuff in October. That's when my wife and I started running bleachers, because running on the road wasn't really an option. Bleachers have much less impact on my back and knees because my heel never hits the steps.

I still have some residual nerve damage, and associated numb spots on my shin and top of my foot. Those showed up when my disc ruptured. I hoped they would have gotten better, and they did a little bit, but not completely.

Last fall I started having sciatica, and I need to go back in and have them look at my back to see if there is way that can be relieved.

I do like the sound of the disc replacement or cement. I keep myself in good shape for 50+ but I can see things slipping away if I don't get my back healed up.

Getting back to the surgery, I'd do it again in a minute but then I didn't really have any choice. You can PT a bulging disc but there is no PT in the world that will fix a ruptured disc.

 

[307]

You can PT a bulging disc but there is no PT in the world that will fix a ruptured disc.

"The majority of patients suffering from a radiculopathy caused by a herniated nucleus pulposus (HNP) heal spontaneously without surgery or chemonucleolysis."

source:

The natural history of lumbar disc herniation and radiculopathy

The majority of patients suffering from a radiculopathy caused by a herniated nucleus pulposus (HNP) heal spontaneously without surgery or chemonucleo…

www.sciencedirect.com

Somewhat ironically, the larger the herniation, the better the resorption and long term prognosis.

Edit to add another study showing 66.66% reabsorb spontaneously, without surgery or invasive tx.

https://www.painphysicianjournal.com/current/pdf?article=NDAwNA%3D%3D&journal=101&fbclid=IwAR1wtTywmUanUYJuDZUoYbmIZO4vqP0aCHZbv9MQP4ywzjsukxiGxBU7LQY

 

[Newtosavage]

"The majority of patients suffering from a radiculopathy caused by a herniated nucleus pulposus (HNP) heal spontaneously without surgery or chemonucleolysis."

source:

The natural history of lumbar disc herniation and radiculopathy

The majority of patients suffering from a radiculopathy caused by a herniated nucleus pulposus (HNP) heal spontaneously without surgery or chemonucleo…

www.sciencedirect.com

Somewhat ironically, the larger the herniation, the better the resorption and long term prognosis.

Edit to add another study showing 66.66% reabsorb spontaneously, without surgery or invasive tx.

https://www.painphysicianjournal.com/current/pdf?article=NDAwNA%3D%3D&journal=101&fbclid=IwAR1wtTywmUanUYJuDZUoYbmIZO4vqP0aCHZbv9MQP4ywzjsukxiGxBU7LQY

I figued someone would come along soon enough with something like that...

In my case, the portion of disc that had ruptured was 2cm x 3cm in size (surgeon's official term was "a whopper") and it was actively damaging the nerves to my right leg. Had he not performed surgery, immediately, there is a chance I would not have regained feeling in about 80% of the areas that came back.

I'm not a doctor, and sure, the body is very resilient and could possibly reabsorb that ruptured disc, but I'm very happy the surgeon was able to go in and remove it (with only about a 1" incision) pretty easily. Waiting it out, and doing PT while it was "reabsorbed" was just not an option in my mind. When you can't feel a large part of one of your legs, you want relief fast and you want to know the feeling will return to the extent possible.

 

[307]

Yeah, each case is unique for sure.

 

[Newtosavage]

I will add that I did PT for several episodes prior to this, and it definitely helped. I learned some exercises that I still do today. So I would never steer anyone away from PT.

 

[Ratbeetle]

I figued someone would come along soon enough with something like that...

In my case, the portion of disc that had ruptured was 2cm x 3cm in size (surgeon's official term was "a whopper") and it was actively damaging the nerves to my right leg. Had he not performed surgery, immediately, there is a chance I would not have regained feeling in about 80% of the areas that came back.

I'm not a doctor, and sure, the body is very resilient and could possibly reabsorb that ruptured disc, but I'm very happy the surgeon was able to go in and remove it (with only about a 1" incision) pretty easily. Waiting it out, and doing PT while it was "reabsorbed" was just not an option in my mind. When you can't feel a large part of one of your legs, you want relief fast and you want to know the feeling will return to the extent possible.

While mine was not a "whopper", my surgeon did tell me that it could not have been any more directly centered on the nerve root. To say I was a miserable would be an understatement.

No amount of PT, chiropractic care, acupuncture, yoga, traction, inversion or voodoo was going to fix me. I know because I tried it all.

I have some permanent nerve damage from waiting so long to get fixed and still deal with calf pain from time to time. But it's very minor compared to what I had before. Overall, I'm very grateful to my surgical team and couldn't be more pleased with my outcome.

 

[Newtosavage]

While mine was not a "whopper", my surgeon did tell me that it could not have been any more directly centered on the nerve root. To say I was a miserable would be an understatement.

No amount of PT, chiropractic care, acupuncture, yoga, traction, inversion or voodoo was going to fix me. I know because I tried it all.

I have some permanent nerve damage from waiting so long to get fixed and still deal with calf pain from time to time. But it's very minor compared to what I had before. Overall, I'm very grateful to my surgical team and couldn't be more pleased with my outcome.

I called mine a "chicken nugget" (because that's what it looked like to me) and asked if I could take it with me. LOL I was going to put it on my desk in formaldehyde for a conversation piece. They said no. By law I couldn't take it with me. I'm like what kind of law is that? I brought it in here and I made it ! LOL Oh well. I'm sure my staff is thankful they don't have to look at that on my desk.

Like you, I still have lingering issues but I'll take those compared to the pain I had. Since the surgery I've been on 3 successful CO hunts up to 11K feet, and a year ago I was running 10-12 mi. at a time preparing for a marathon. Not bad for a guy who for a few days, thought his running/hiking days may be over for good.

 

[Ratbeetle]

I called mine a "chicken nugget" (because that's what it looked like to me) and asked if I could take it with me. LOL I was going to put it on my desk in formaldehyde for a conversation piece. They said no. By law I couldn't take it with me. I'm like what kind of law is that? I brought it in here and I made it ! LOL Oh well. I'm sure my staff is thankful they don't have to look at that on my desk.

Like you, I still have lingering issues but I'll take those compared to the pain I had. Since the surgery I've been on 3 successful CO hunts up to 11K feet, and a year ago I was running 10-12 mi. at a time preparing for a marathon. Not bad for a guy who for a few days, thought his running/hiking days may be over for good.

Good Lord. My surgeon said mine was like a small bit of chewed up gum.

I know the feeling. I was sheep hunting 4 months after surgery. Prior to that, I couldn't even sit down without hurting. I was a medicated, miserable shell of my old gym rat self. Now, a year out from surgery, I back to working out 4-5 days a week and at 40, I'm almost back to the shape I was in at 25 in the military...almost, ha. Getting old sucks.

Had I waited for my body to work it out, I'd probably be addicted to painkillers or in a wheelchair.

 

[TheGDog]

How does belly fat impact stability?

Increased lumbar lordosis, ok, I can see that, but stability?

My recent MRI report actually noted a "lack of lordosis" in my instance. I'm presuming that might be because of the way in which my tailbone got body-slammed into the ground all those years ago.


Another question for you guys... I now kind of have this constant diffused bruising (it's more than yellowing darkening, not your typical purplish stuff) under the skin at the beginning of where the butt-crack starts, and its a little more favored towards the one side where I had to extend my leg to catch myself on that dirtbike jump years ago.

Those of you in the know... is this because some structure inside is leaking? Or would this be because of the damage, and my sedentary career choice with high sit times, causing some kind of bulging out structure in there to press against my flesh in that area unduly, thus causes the bruising?

 

[Yarak]

The best advice I can give you is Make sure you do your PT and do it no matter how bad it hurts
I was told I wouldn’t walk again without some kind of support or maybe not walk at all
I did PT even when I wasn’t at the therapist office
One other thing is Do Not let them get you hooked on pain meds

 

[MasterTimo]

I'm reading this thread while I sit in waiting area for my wife's cervical disc removal and fusion. I'm praying it relieves her problems. PT and steroid injection did nothing.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

You're a strong man. I hope all is good too.

 

[scott_co]

When I was learning to XC ski around 2000, I slipped on some ice and fell right on my butt. I knew I had done some damage as I felt almost like I had whiplash sensation up through my neck. Hell, my teeth even hurt a little after the fall.

Fast forward about 13 years, and the disc that I ruptured was finally done. I had a Transforaminal Lumbar Interbody Fusion (TLIF) surgery at L4-L5.

For my recovery, I was walking around the hospital the night of the surgery, and I was outdoors walking the next day. I walked for the first month and slowly started to ride my indoor bike (sitting upright) around 6-8 weeks after the surgery. At 6 months, I was riding outdoors (road bike) with no limitations.

I am a little less flexible than I was before, but pain free. I run, ride my road and mountain, ski, and hunt in the backcountry as much as I want to. I just need to stretch a little more often to keep my back loose.

 

[TheGDog]

This is gonna be me sometime after paying income taxes this year. I might have the initial appts before then, but going to have to wait til after before doing a surgery since I'm sure there will be some decent hunk of max out-of-pocket I'm gonna be hit with since we've clicked over into a new year.

Freakin sore all the time now. Bruising 24/7.

 

[CentexBowhunter]

I had my discectomy on my L5 when I was 23 and am 29 now with no regrets thus far. My back gives me some slight issues every now and again, but from prior to surgery I couldn't even put on my shoes. Just follow the rehab procedure to a T. That first little recovery period was not very fun for me, but it has paid big dividends.

 

[LostArra]

You're a strong man. I hope all is good too.

Update: wife's neck surgery was 100% success. She was symptom-free immediately and has remained so 6 months post op.

Her only complaint was the neck brace the surgeon made her wear when riding in a vehicle for 4 months. Since she had no symptoms she felt like an advertisement for a personal injury lawyer. My daughters wanted to get her a Better Call Saul t-shirt.

 

[Rich M]

Hey All -

Wondering if anyone here has had to undergo back surgery? After working out and continued PT looks like I'm going to need a discectomy or disk replacement in my lumbar L5S1... (Still more testing to help with decision). I'm young which is the concerning part (Turn 38 in Sept). Most likely from all the years of Division 1 sports, weights, and active life, and office..... Going to have to forego my Elk hunt this September it think.

Anyway, if you have any experience would really appreciate anything you'd like to share. Procedure, recovery, were you able to get back to active lifestyle... etc. Not the most uplifting subject, feel free to PM me.

I want to get back to posting pics of hunts! Thanks for your help/advice!

Sean

My wife had a laser discectomy and then a second one about 20 yrs later. Needs to treat her back tenderly. yes- the surgery is not a once & done cure-all. It will last as long as you let it but will wear out slowly over time.

Anyway - after surgery the first 5 or so days will hurt, then suddenly you'll feel great. Don't believe it. Takes a while to recover.

Don't push it or think that you can ever do exactly what you used to do. You will be able to hunt and whatever else you did before but more gently. If you forget to be gentle to yourself, you will have a second surgery and maybe a third.

That's all I got for you.

Now for the good news - you're gonna feel a lot better. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

You may be able to hunt this fall if you get the surgery done this spring. I don't see any reason why you can't.

 

[rayporter]

in September i had a microdiscectomy. feeling great but it has been a long road to get here. therapy was so painful i just quit. give me all the crap you want but they were doing more damage.

i had a couple different shots and in desperation i went to my chiropractor. instant relief.

he said he sees it a lot after surgery. i was walking 2 miles before the snow hit and yesterday i shoveled some snow.

 

[TexaninSconny]

I’m about to turn 40. I’m had two bulging discs from a bike accident that really killed me all through my 30s. I would get out of bed and hobble to the bathroom. Simple tasks like bending over and picking things up were a labor to me. Chiro multiple times a week, PT treatments, personal trainer, natural inflammation reducers...nothing worked for me.

Got in infrared sauna...game changer! I feel better at 40 than I ever did during my 30s! Ours is from Sunlighten, but there are multiple good options out there. Hope it gets better and you can avoid surgery if possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fwafwow]

Sorry to be late to this thread. Just today I scheduled a C6/7 fusion. The x-ray unfortunately showed the two vertebrae were too close together for an artificial disc. After the last two months of pain, I was ready for surgery tomorrow. PT, massage, dry needling, ice, heat, stretching, meds and a chiropractor didn’t alleviate or fix anything. The doctor was particularly concerned about the nerve and muscle damage in my left arm. Fingers crossed this works and the rehab is relatively easy, but I doubt it can be as bad as the symptoms. I wish I had gone to the neurosurgeon earlier.