Anyone Go Through Back Surgery?

[brsnow]

No it does not. Obesity and low back pain are poorly correlated. IOW, having a big belly doesn't cause low back pain when evaluated across a population.

Belly fat directly impacts stability. I wasn’t referring to obesity as a whole but specifically to belly fat and chronic lower back issues. If you are obese you have other issues.

 

[307]

How does belly fat impact stability?

Increased lumbar lordosis, ok, I can see that, but stability?

 

[brsnow]

How does belly fat impact stability?

Increased lumbar lordosis, ok, I can see that, but stability?

Lordosis is stretching your core so that will lead to stability issues, you are weakening your core overall.

 

[307]

Lordosis is stretching your core so that will lead to stability issues, you are weakening your core overall.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim? I'm betting you do not.

 

[307]

...and lordosis is not "stretching your core". That's nonsense.

 

[brsnow]

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim? I'm betting you do not.

You seem very sensitive about the issue. There is plenty of research out there, mine experience and observations.

 

[307]

I think your claims are complete b.s. and you have done nothing to change that. Where is this research you claim exists that supports your claim?

The burden of proof is yours.

 

[brsnow]

I think your claims are complete b.s. and you have done nothing to change that. Where is this research you claim exists that supports your claim?

The burden of proof is yours.

I am married to a DPT and we own a successful clinic. It is real life experience. The idea that having a fat belly doesn’t cause impact is silly.

 

[307]

I am married to a DPT and we own a successful clinic. It is real life experience. The idea that having a fat belly doesn’t cause impact is silly.

Lol...

I've worked in spine rehab and treatment for a couple decades myself. Ive diagnosed and treated thousands of painful backs. I've worked with NFL pro bowl linemen, elite weightlifters, competitive strongmen, and many others with a belly that you'd try to claim is evidence of a weak "core". I also own a "successful clinic".

What else ya' got champ?

I think your claims are false.

 

[brsnow]

At the end of the day I would say you are better off without a beer belly hopefully we can agree on that.

 

[Wolverines1]

Back in my early twenties I was run over by a car, as a pedestrian. At that time, other than a rod in my left tibia, a bunch of other fractures, road rash, sprains and torn ligaments, I was relatively unharmed given the situation.

Fast forward about 7 years. We are moving into our new house in Colorado which we hired out. I literally move a stack of empty broken down boxes, and spent the rest of the day settling the house. The next morning, I wake up and literally cannot walk. I’m in excruciating pain to the point where I crawl to the bathroom. I’m throwing up due to pain, can’t sleep, nothing I do will take any amount of pain away.

So, I go to the hospital. Who sends me to a family practice doctor who puts me on about every pain medication there is, plus a muscle relaxer. Over the next several years, I went through physical therapy four times, had about every outpatient procedure and injection there is. So I started the process of surgical consultation of a fusion that’s now linked back to my accident.

Luckily, on the advice of my father, I went to see a nerve specialist, who ordered some tests including an MRI and noticed lateral tears in my discs. He suggested PRP injections which is platelet rich plasma injected directly into the discs as well as the facet joints. I had this done twice over a year period for the tune of about $4,000 and it’s completely taken my back issues away.

I would encourage anyone who’s considering back surgery to look into PRP or stem cell as unless your insurance is literally top notch, you might be surprised as to the cost difference between proprietary procedures (quicker turn around time, hardly any rehab, but totally out of pocket) compared to a fusion considering the lengthy rehabilitation process and overall cost.

 

[brsnow]

Lol...

I've worked in spine rehab and treatment for a couple decades myself. Ive diagnosed and treated thousands of painful backs. I've worked with NFL pro bowl linemen, elite weightlifters, competitive strongmen, and many others with a belly that you'dtry to claim is evidence of a weak "core". I also own a "successful clinic".

What else ya' got champ?

I think your claims are false.

I am not really concerned with your opinion, it is okay to disagree.

 

[307]

I am not really concerned with your opinion, it is okay to disagree.

And literally nobody should be concerned with your false statements based on dogma and completely unsupported by the spine biomechanics literature.

 

[brsnow]

And literally nobody should be concerned with your false statements based on dogma and completely unsupported by the spine biomechanics literature.

;-) Probably not best to get medical advice on the Internet in general. You think I am an idiot, I think you are an idiot. No real point in carrying on the discussion.

 

[307]

;-) Probably not best to get medical advice on the Internet in general. You think I am an idiot, I think you are an idiot. No real point in carrying on the discussion.

Not all opinions are created equal.

 

[307]

...its like a trained epidemiologist vs Karen from Facebook...

 

[Jherek]

I could write a book lol, but others are touching with some great info. I've had 7 knee surgeries in my 20s, In 2018 at age 35 had a discectomy on my L5 S1, the pain was unbearable, shooting down my leg mainly in my butt, like someone had a knife 3" in my cheek. It was probably 6 months that I could not even sit in a chair, and spent 22 plus hours a day in bed. At the same time I also had a small bulge in my L3 L4 they opted not to work on. In 2019 8 months post surgery the pain was back at about 50%, the buldged had grown they estimated into the size of a grape. I had surgery scheduled, but 2 weeks prior the pain reduced considerably, to this point I'm still avoiding surgery but I feel it's only a matter of time. I live with a ton of pain daily and my outwest hunting is so limited and will never be what I dreamed it could. That being said I do feel fortunate that I have the quality of life I do, it could have been much worse.

The best advice I can give anyone is get a second, and possibly a third opinion. Do as much research as you can about your condition as well as the Dr. And go to the BEST Dr you possibly can, even if that's a 6 or 8 hours drive. Not sure where you live, but maybe the sports Dr at a D1 school, or a clinic that a pro team uses. With my knee I went to the best surgeon in my area a town of 30k, and he REALLY REALLY screwed me up!!! By dumb luck and the grace of God right before my 4rd surgery I was able to see Dr McKenzie the Green Bay Packers Dr in his words, (I can not belive how bad your condition is, and what a terrible job they've done) 3 surgeries later and 6 months learning how to walk again, to this point I've avoided a knee replacement and still enjoy a decent quality of life.

Going to the best Dr you possibly can, and rehabbing to the best of your ability, obviously should give you the best chance possible at a full recovery. But also peace of mind, God forbid if something goes wrong, at least you can't say what if......

Good luck

 

[Marbles]

My possibly worthless story does have to do with imaging. The radiologist misread my MRI as blood...nothing to see here it will be fine. I was confined by the pain to being prone. The shot of meat tenderizer the insurance company required to be tried first worked until the drugs wore off which was about 6 hours. Two surgeons took a look disagreed with the radiologist. The fact that I couldn’t lift my left big toe anymore sealed the deal, and they were right, not blood. I’ll never be 100% again, as the doc predicted. But I’ll take the 95% I’ve got now over where I was.

Worthless was a poor (and inaccurate) word choice on my part. I'm going to avoid getting into a discussion about case studies vs other research methods. It is off topic, and I've made enough questionable word choices already.

Your story is an example of why good physical exams are so important and how complex medical issues can be. Glad you had good surgeons who caught it.

 

[Marbles]

No it does not. Obesity and low back pain are poorly correlated. IOW, having a big belly doesn't cause low back pain when evaluated across a population.

Where is the research to support your claim?

Something better than a meta-analysis?

Obesity as a Risk Factor for Low Back Pain: A Meta-Analysis : Clinical Spine Surgery

been the research focus in the past decade. However, available data from studies on the association between obesity and LBP remains debatable. Methods: An extensive English language literature retrieval regarding the association between overweight, obesity, and the risk of LBP incidence was...

journals.lww.com

I think your claims are complete b.s. and you have done nothing to change that. Where is this research you claim exists that supports your claim?

The burden of proof is yours.

Not really. If you had said there was no research on the topic, sure. But you made a claim that would have to be based on studies to be less than b.s. yourself.

I am married to a DPT and we own a successful clinic. It is real life experience. The idea that having a fat belly doesn’t cause impact is silly.

Really, you can bother to argue the point, but will not take the 5 minutes needed to support your statement?

Now that I've painted a target on my back, it is time to run for the hills and hide.....

Sorry for posting an abstract only with full study behind a pay wall. I have access to it through professional affiliations, so I'm satisfied to not dig further after reading it. I wanted to know if I have been giving bad information to my patients, so I had to do some research and figured I would be responsible and share for the benefit of anyone else who was interested.

I have to say thank you to those who have challenged things I have said, you got me to review a topic that gets neglected in EM and I needed to brush up on.

 

[307]

Where is the research to support your claim?

Something better than a meta-analysis?

Obesity as a Risk Factor for Low Back Pain: A Meta-Analysis : Clinical Spine Surgery

been the research focus in the past decade. However, available data from studies on the association between obesity and LBP remains debatable. Methods: An extensive English language literature retrieval regarding the association between overweight, obesity, and the risk of LBP incidence was...

journals.lww.com

Not really. If you had said there was no research on the topic, sure. But you made a claim that would have to be based on studies to be less than b.s. yourself.



Really, you can bother to argue the point, but will not take the 5 minutes needed to support your statement?

Now that I've painted a target on my back, it is time to run for the hills and hide.....

Sorry for posting an abstract only with full study behind a pay wall. I have access to it through professional affiliations, so I'm satisfied to not dig further after reading it. I wanted to know if I have been giving bad information to my patients, so I had to do some research and figured I would be responsible and share for the benefit of anyone else who was interested.

I have to say thank you to those who have challenged things I have said, you got me to review a topic that gets neglected in EM and I needed to brush up on.

Seems like a mess of confounding variables, primarily psych, would make this challenging (and has been the reason for long standing debate on the topic).

While somewhat encouraging, it seems to oppose earlier similar research on the topic which found no clear link, such as:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Qais_Gasibat2/publication/316669313_Measuring_the_Relationship_between_Obesity_and_Low_Back_Pain_A_Review_Article/links/590b46970f7e9b1d08272631/Measuring-the-Relationship-between-Obesity-and-Low-Back-Pain-A-Review-Article.pdf

Having a " power belly" is a consistent hallmark of extremely strong/stable individuals across the power sports. One of the greatest weightlifters of all time, vasily alexeev, certainly no lack of core strength or stability despite a monster of a belly. Strong man competitors and weightlifters/powerlifters will show a very clear trend of strength and stability, though there's no shortage of LBP in these populations (IMO more likely due to the extreme loading).

greatest russian weightlifter male - Google Search

Some fat people are strong, some fat people are weak, sedentary, and depressed... Confounding variables all over the place when you jump into these topics. It would be very interesting to study a strong fat population vs a skinny sedentary/weak population...

In my discussions with Stuart McGill PhD, a large and robust midsection is critical to maximal strength even when it's not "all muscle". Not all bellies are created equally...

I say this as a "flat belly" but then again, maybe that's why I couldn't ever jerk 300 lbs after cleaning it easily. Maybe I had a belly deficiency? Or it could be my arms of a 12 year old girl. Whatever.