Anyone Go Through Back Surgery?

[Sccritterkiller]

In regards to fusion. I would ask the Dr. how it's going to effect the disks above and below the fusion based on your age/activity level?
I blew my S1 and my L5 in 07...still havent had surgery and I can still do everything I want to at 43...after 13 yrs I know my limits and if I push past those I will be sore for a few days. Every couple years I may have to have a oral steroid pack when I do something really stupid to get me back on track.Good Luck!

 

[LostArra]

I'm reading this thread while I sit in waiting area for my wife's cervical disc removal and fusion. I'm praying it relieves her problems. PT and steroid injection did nothing.

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[Ratbeetle]

Hey All -

Wondering if anyone here has had to undergo back surgery? After working out and continued PT looks like I'm going to need a discectomy or disk replacement in my lumbar L5S1... (Still more testing to help with decision). I'm young which is the concerning part (Turn 38 in Sept). Most likely from all the years of Division 1 sports, weights, and active life, and office..... Going to have to forego my Elk hunt this September it think.

Anyway, if you have any experience would really appreciate anything you'd like to share. Procedure, recovery, were you able to get back to active lifestyle... etc. Not the most uplifting subject, feel free to PM me.

I want to get back to posting pics of hunts! Thanks for your help/advice!

Sean

L5S1 microdiscectomy last May. My herniation was directly centered on thr nerve root and I had been miserable for two years. I tried everything and wanted surgery to be the last option...wish I would have done it years earlier.

For me the procedure was a breeze. In at 8am for pre-op, home by early afternoon. Spent the next week not doing anything but walking several times a day as instructed by the doc. Back to limited work the next week with continued walking.

I recovered well. I can't remember exactly how long I was on lifting restrictions, 4-6 weeks I beleive. But by the end of August, I was back in the mountains with a loaded pack sheep hunting.

I would do it again in a heartbeat if I needed to. You probably know this, but being in constant pain for years on end makes you really pleasant to be around. My wife noticed an immediate improvement in my attitude...she likes me again, lol.

 

[Marbles]

Hey All -

Wondering if anyone here has had to undergo back surgery? After working out and continued PT looks like I'm going to need a discectomy or disk replacement in my lumbar L5S1... (Still more testing to help with decision). I'm young which is the concerning part (Turn 38 in Sept). Most likely from all the years of Division 1 sports, weights, and active life, and office..... Going to have to forego my Elk hunt this September it think.

Anyway, if you have any experience would really appreciate anything you'd like to share. Procedure, recovery, were you able to get back to active lifestyle... etc. Not the most uplifting subject, feel free to PM me.

I want to get back to posting pics of hunts! Thanks for your help/advice!

Sean

Do you only have pain or do you have neurologic symptoms as well? Neurologic symptoms would be one leg significantly larger than the other, altered sensation over distinct areas of a leg (not numbness and tingling, but true inability to feel certain stimuli), loss of bowel or bladder control, Etc. I did not read all the posts, so sorry if this has been covered.

Surgery for pain is not normally worth the risk, some people end up with worse problems than they had before. Others end up the same, so on balance surgery is harmful because it did not help them. Only about one third of patients who get surgery actually see improvement.

 

[Sneaky223]

I have had a busted c6 in my neck. Fused 5, 6, and 7 with bone from my hip also with titanium plates, screws and wire. Broke my neck during a fight when I was younger.

 

[Ratbeetle]

Do you only have pain or do you have neurologic symptoms as well? Neurologic symptoms would be one leg significantly larger than the other, altered sensation over distinct areas of a leg (not numbness and tingling, but true inability to feel certain stimuli), loss of bowel or bladder control, Etc. I did not read all the posts, so sorry if this has been covered.

Surgery for pain is not normally worth the risk, some people end up with worse problems than they had before. Others end up the same, so on balance surgery is harmful because it did not help them. Only about one third of patients who get surgery actually see improvement.

Lol, have you lived with chronic nerve pain...for years?

It's up to each individual to decide what their risk tolerance is, but some of these disc operstions are fairly minor. Fusions are another ball game but,a blanket statement that surgery for pain isn't worth it is ignorant.

The quality of life improvement I had was life changing. And that is no exaggeration.

 

[RickH]

I'm 20 weeks out from a L4-L5 fusion, laminectomy. Before the surgery I had leg, foot and butt pain and numbness for about a year. I worked through it until last November I finally went in to get it checked out. The x-rays and MRI showed pretty severe stenosis. My spinal cord was about an 1/8 of normal at that spot. My L-4 had slid down and the disc was bulging kinking the nerve. After talking to two different surgeons, one a neurologist, and the other an orthopedic that specialized in spine surgeries, both said the fusion was the only way to fix it. Most likely the causes were age, wear and tear, and 30 years of lifting stuff the wrong way. I ended up choosing the orthopedic surgeon (Dr Jim Youseff). He is a pretty renowned spine surgeon and he was closer to home for me. After the surgery the symptoms mostly went away. I'm still getting a few mild symptoms but it takes a long time for nerves to heal. I'm way better than I was. One of the requirements for recovery is to walk at least a mile a day from the day you leave the hospital. That's what kept me sane and I've put on a lot of miles since. At 8 weeks he gave me the OK to carry a light pack. On May 9th I was able to hike in about 3 miles and call in and shoot a wild turkey. I still had lifting restrictions so had a good friend with me to help out. Since then I've spent a lot of days hiking, scouting, and fishing some of the mountain streams and lakes around here. I wasn't able to start PT until about 8 weeks out either due to the shutdown but am doing that now and probably for the rest of my life. They figure it takes about 6 months for the fusion to set so I'm still in recovery. I'm listening to my body and the experts advice so hopefully I'll never have to do this again. The good news for me is 6 months puts it right at the beginning of archery season.

My advice is if you get it done, listen to the doc and PT and ease back into things slowly so you don't have to do it again. Good Luck

 

[ChrisS]

I used to practice jiu jitsu and when I was 38, I ended up spiked on my head during one practice session with a newer white belt. I heard every vertebrae in my neck pop like cracking your knuckles. Turned out the gym only had a couple of thinner mats over a concrete slab floor. I was fine for a bit, went home and within an hour or two I was in so much pain, I couldn't lay down or move my head. Off to the ER and fortunately no fractures, but they said I had probably had ruptured a couple of discs and to take 4-8 weeks off from any physical activity. Two years later with no real symptoms, I had started getting a pain in the middle of my back. This felt like someone driving a knuckle into the muscle. It moved and shifted under my armpit, down my arms and into my fingers. Everytime I drove somewhere, I had a lunch cooler full of ice packs to put on my neck. Then the numbness started in.

Had an MRI in July, C4/C5 and C5/C6 were ruptured badly and there was calcium deposits forming that would narrow the opening. Two months of PT did little. Surgery consult in September, fusion in December by a neurosurgeon. Titanium plate and six screws holding everything together. I woke up from surgery and felt great. By March I was digging a stump out of the ground with a pick-axe and pry bar. I started lifting weights again by June and by the next year I was back to deadlifting and squats at about 80% of my pre-injury weights.

I'm 46 now and I still run and lift, carry a 65lb training pack up hills, and basically have zero limitations.

That said. I have to know my limits and use the best form I possibly can for everything. I tried wrestling my 85lb kayak into the back of my truck by myself, did it awkwardly and had some nerve pain for a few weeks. Lifting fully loaded heavy coolers by myself, bad idea. But much heavier gym weights have been fine, even heavy KB swings.

 

[Marbles]

Lol, have you lived with chronic nerve pain...for years?

It's up to each individual to decide what their risk tolerance is, but some of these disc operstions are fairly minor. Fusions are another ball game but,a blanket statement that surgery for pain isn't worth it is ignorant.

The quality of life improvement I had was life changing. And that is no exaggeration.

The chronic pain I have lived with for over 10 years is not nerve pain, so no.

As you have called a statement I made ignorant, I recommend you look up the word "normally" when it is used as a modifier, then look up the meaning of "blanket statement." Then consider if calling a statement that specifically includes a modifier that prevents it from applying to every case a "blanket statement" could be considered ignorance of the English language.

Seeing as anecdotal experience is being presented, I will present a counter anecdote. A friend of mine, who was running marathons at the time, got a discectomy, he is now more than 100 pounds over weight and has trouble doing yard work because of the pain. His change is quality of life was also life changing, and that is no exaggeration.

Such stories are worthless in deciding the merits of an operation from a logical and professional prospective.

One could accurately say my statement was lacking in granularity, for discectomy it is about 1/6 (rather than 1/3) of patients that have unfavorable outcomes. The lack of in-depth detail in my first post does revel ignorance as I have worked and lived with back pain enough to form professional opinions and broadly understand the scope of the issue, but not enough to have expert knowledge of the subject. I deal with the imaging side of things more than the surgical, and the surgical only when there are red flags. So, my opinion of surgical intervention is driven by the knowledge that inappropriate imaging causes harm by greatly increasing unnecessary surgery. My general advice, not knowing any real specifics in this case, is driven by the knowledge that inappropriate imaging is very common in the clinical setting.

If someone wants more granularity, here are some sources that are publicly available and free. These only represent a start if you really want to understand the subject. I have other subjects that are more important for my professional practice, and as such I am unwilling to go deeper than what is found bellow. I also see no value in taking the time to write a paper using the below sources as references, so ask pardon for not taking the time to discuss them all in depth.

American College of Physicians issues guideline for treating nonradicular low back pain | ACP Online

Treatment recommendations include massage, acupuncture, spinal manipulation, tai chi, and yoga

www.acponline.org

The Use of Imaging in Management of Patients with Low Back Pain - PMC

Lower back pain (LBP) is one of the most common chief complaints encountered in primary care. Advanced imaging studies, including computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), are frequently ordered in the setting of LBP. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Informed appropriate imaging for low back pain management: A narrative review - PMC

Most patients with acute low back pain (LBP), with or without radiculopathy, have substantial improvements in pain and function in the first 4 weeks, and they do not require routine imaging. Imaging is considered in those patients who have had up to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.jospt.org/doi/full/10.2519/jospt.2011.3618

https://acsearch.acr.org/docs/69483/Narrative/

Low Back Pain

Low back pain is not unique. An estimated 75-85% of Americans experience some form of back pain during their life. Although low back pain can be quite

www.aans.org

 

[PONYBOY]

I'm 20 weeks out from a L4-L5 fusion, laminectomy. Before the surgery I had leg, foot and butt pain and numbness for about a year. I worked through it until last November I finally went in to get it checked out. The x-rays and MRI showed pretty severe stenosis. My spinal cord was about an 1/8 of normal at that spot. My L-4 had slid down and the disc was bulging kinking the nerve. After talking to two different surgeons, one a neurologist, and the other an orthopedic that specialized in spine surgeries, both said the fusion was the only way to fix it. Most likely the causes were age, wear and tear, and 30 years of lifting stuff the wrong way. I ended up choosing the orthopedic surgeon (Dr Jim Youseff). He is a pretty renowned spine surgeon and he was closer to home for me. After the surgery the symptoms mostly went away. I'm still getting a few mild symptoms but it takes a long time for nerves to heal. I'm way better than I was. One of the requirements for recovery is to walk at least a mile a day from the day you leave the hospital. That's what kept me sane and I've put on a lot of miles since. At 8 weeks he gave me the OK to carry a light pack. On May 9th I was able to hike in about 3 miles and call in and shoot a wild turkey. I still had lifting restrictions so had a good friend with me to help out. Since then I've spent a lot of days hiking, scouting, and fishing some of the mountain streams and lakes around here. I wasn't able to start PT until about 8 weeks out either due to the shutdown but am doing that now and probably for the rest of my life. They figure it takes about 6 months for the fusion to set so I'm still in recovery. I'm listening to my body and the experts advice so hopefully I'll never have to do this again. The good news for me is 6 months puts it right at the beginning of archery season.

My advice is if you get it done, listen to the doc and PT and ease back into things slowly so you don't have to do it again. Good Luck

That's great man! Happy you are back at it!

 

[westonadkins]

The chronic pain I have lived with for over 10 years is not nerve pain, so no.

As you have called a statement I made ignorant, I recommend you look up the word "normally" when it is used as a modifier, then look up the meaning of "blanket statement." Then consider if calling a statement that specifically includes a modifier that prevents it from applying to every case a "blanket statement" could be considered ignorance of the English language.

Seeing as anecdotal experience is being presented, I will present a counter anecdote. A friend of mine, who was running marathons at the time, got a discectomy, he is now more than 100 pounds over weight and has trouble doing yard work because of the pain. His change is quality of life was also life changing, and that is no exaggeration.

Such stories are worthless in deciding the merits of an operation from a logical and professional prospective.

One could accurately say my statement was lacking in granularity, for discectomy it is about 1/6 (rather than 1/3) of patients that have unfavorable outcomes. The lack of in-depth detail in my first post does revel ignorance as I have worked and lived with back pain enough to form professional opinions and broadly understand the scope of the issue, but not enough to have expert knowledge of the subject. I deal with the imaging side of things more than the surgical, and the surgical only when there are red flags. So, my opinion of surgical intervention is driven by the knowledge that inappropriate imaging causes harm by greatly increasing unnecessary surgery. My general advice, not knowing any real specifics in this case, is driven by the knowledge that inappropriate imaging is very common in the clinical setting.

If someone wants more granularity, here are some sources that are publicly available and free. These only represent a start if you really want to understand the subject. I have other subjects that are more important for my professional practice, and as such I am unwilling to go deeper than what is found bellow. I also see no value in taking the time to write a paper using the below sources as references, so ask pardon for not taking the time to discuss them all in depth.

American College of Physicians issues guideline for treating nonradicular low back pain | ACP Online

Treatment recommendations include massage, acupuncture, spinal manipulation, tai chi, and yoga

www.acponline.org

The Use of Imaging in Management of Patients with Low Back Pain - PMC

Lower back pain (LBP) is one of the most common chief complaints encountered in primary care. Advanced imaging studies, including computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), are frequently ordered in the setting of LBP. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Informed appropriate imaging for low back pain management: A narrative review - PMC

Most patients with acute low back pain (LBP), with or without radiculopathy, have substantial improvements in pain and function in the first 4 weeks, and they do not require routine imaging. Imaging is considered in those patients who have had up to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.jospt.org/doi/full/10.2519/jospt.2011.3618

https://acsearch.acr.org/docs/69483/Narrative/

Low Back Pain

Low back pain is not unique. An estimated 75-85% of Americans experience some form of back pain during their life. Although low back pain can be quite

www.aans.org

The research articles are well taken. But there is a distinction in the literature between back pain and radicular pain, with more favorable control rates of radicular pain with surgery. It's worth noting especially since the OP didn't mention specifically what's going on in their case.


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[tttoadman]

I had a fusion on C5 to C7 in 2006. Stiffness and lack of mobility, but well worth it. As others have said, the issue is the adjoining areas. I now have issues at C8 where my right arm is heavy numb all the time. I havent started losing strength yet, but is is just a matter of time. the issue I there isn't much I can do about it. the cool part is the tech is advancing so fast, there may be a solution for me.

2016 I overdid it and herniated S1. I fought it and finally had it done in spring of 2018. I was packing elk sept of 18. You just need to be smarter and keep the loads smaller.

My brother had his second one done last year. bars plates screws and cement from S1 to L2. He is done done. He just wants to enjoy the rst of his life and not go through that again.

Back country hunting is great, but it takes a toll.

I will give a shout for Dr Daniel Roher in Portland. While you are waiting, he will show you pics of all the elk at his house. He understands how we are, and will work with you knowing we push the limits.

 

[Sled]

L4.L5 and L5s1 got bad and i could no longer walk without falling. doc said i needed to fuse but gave me the option of a discectomy on the worst one and dealing with the other. that's what i did in 2000 on my 20th birthday. it took a few months before i stopped walking like i had a stick up my ass. i'm still active and deal with pain/swelling from time to time but i'm glad i did not get fused.

try to stay string in the core and get good blood flow to the area on a daily basis. that's what seems to work best for me.

 

[gbflyer]

The chronic pain I have lived with for over 10 years is not nerve pain, so no.

As you have called a statement I made ignorant, I recommend you look up the word "normally" when it is used as a modifier, then look up the meaning of "blanket statement." Then consider if calling a statement that specifically includes a modifier that prevents it from applying to every case a "blanket statement" could be considered ignorance of the English language.

Seeing as anecdotal experience is being presented, I will present a counter anecdote. A friend of mine, who was running marathons at the time, got a discectomy, he is now more than 100 pounds over weight and has trouble doing yard work because of the pain. His change is quality of life was also life changing, and that is no exaggeration.

Such stories are worthless in deciding the merits of an operation from a logical and professional prospective.

One could accurately say my statement was lacking in granularity, for discectomy it is about 1/6 (rather than 1/3) of patients that have unfavorable outcomes. The lack of in-depth detail in my first post does revel ignorance as I have worked and lived with back pain enough to form professional opinions and broadly understand the scope of the issue, but not enough to have expert knowledge of the subject. I deal with the imaging side of things more than the surgical, and the surgical only when there are red flags. So, my opinion of surgical intervention is driven by the knowledge that inappropriate imaging causes harm by greatly increasing unnecessary surgery. My general advice, not knowing any real specifics in this case, is driven by the knowledge that inappropriate imaging is very common in the clinical setting.

If someone wants more granularity, here are some sources that are publicly available and free. These only represent a start if you really want to understand the subject. I have other subjects that are more important for my professional practice, and as such I am unwilling to go deeper than what is found bellow. I also see no value in taking the time to write a paper using the below sources as references, so ask pardon for not taking the time to discuss them all in depth.

American College of Physicians issues guideline for treating nonradicular low back pain | ACP Online

Treatment recommendations include massage, acupuncture, spinal manipulation, tai chi, and yoga

www.acponline.org

The Use of Imaging in Management of Patients with Low Back Pain - PMC

Lower back pain (LBP) is one of the most common chief complaints encountered in primary care. Advanced imaging studies, including computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), are frequently ordered in the setting of LBP. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Informed appropriate imaging for low back pain management: A narrative review - PMC

Most patients with acute low back pain (LBP), with or without radiculopathy, have substantial improvements in pain and function in the first 4 weeks, and they do not require routine imaging. Imaging is considered in those patients who have had up to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.jospt.org/doi/full/10.2519/jospt.2011.3618

https://acsearch.acr.org/docs/69483/Narrative/

Low Back Pain

Low back pain is not unique. An estimated 75-85% of Americans experience some form of back pain during their life. Although low back pain can be quite

www.aans.org

My possibly worthless story does have to do with imaging. The radiologist misread my MRI as blood...nothing to see here it will be fine. I was confined by the pain to being prone. The shot of meat tenderizer the insurance company required to be tried first worked until the drugs wore off which was about 6 hours. Two surgeons took a look disagreed with the radiologist. The fact that I couldn’t lift my left big toe anymore sealed the deal, and they were right, not blood. I’ll never be 100% again, as the doc predicted. But I’ll take the 95% I’ve got now over where I was.

 

[hoyt-guy]

Three years ago this past June, I ended up hurting my back in the gym one morning. I didn't think much of it at the time, but as the week dragged on, I started getting severe sciatic nerve pain in my right buttocks. As long as I was sitting, I was pain free, but as soon as I stood for more than 5 mins, the pain would get so bad I would have to sit down. I went in for an MRI & found out I had a very bad herniated disc (L5S1). They first tried to give me injections into my spine to see if that would take the pain away, but it did not work. My surgeon then told me that my only option was a fusion/discectomy of my L5S1. I was nervous about this surgery as I had an Montana archery elk backpack hunt scheduled for mid Sept that fall. My surgery was scheduled for early July. In talking with my surgeon, and given my age at the time (38 years old), he thought that I would have enough time to recover, and go on my hunt. I did the surgery, and did the recovery, and I did go on my hunt. I have to say my back was tired at the end of each day from carrying my pack, but for the most part I was pain free. Unfortunately we got our butts handed to us by the elk, and we ended up not filling our tags, but this I guess could have been a blessing for my tired back.

Three years later my back is better than ever. In the fall I can hike all day on my hunts, and the last 2 seasons, I've been able to pack a deer out of the back country with no pain. Sure my back is tired after that, but all things considered, to me the surgery was worth it. I've been back in the gym lifting, and as long as I wear a weight belt, and stay away from lifts that load my spine, I'm good. There is life after back surgery, I'm proof of it. Listen to your doc's, and be smart, and all should be well. Good luck.

 

[307]

Back surgery for back pain = the odds aren't very good.

Back surgery for leg pain (via nerve root compression) = pretty decent odds

Fusion is becoming much less popular due to a lack of scientific backing for it's efficacy and the certainty of accelerated adjacent segment degeneration.

If a surgeon told me fusion was my "only option" other than following major trauma, I'd find a different surgeon.

 

[brsnow]

If you do have surgery, make sure you address what caused the issue first and keep weight off, especially belly fat. Scar tissue does play a role years down the line.

 

[TheGDog]

So does that mean if we can't keep belly fat off (especially now being in the 50+ category) we're screwed?

 

[307]

So does that mean if we can't keep belly fat off (especially now being in the 50+ category) we're screwed?

No it does not. Obesity and low back pain are poorly correlated. IOW, having a big belly doesn't cause low back pain when evaluated across a population.

 

[Ross]

l5 s1 extrusion two years ago this month...crazy nerve pain in my ass down to back of knee never had pain so bad and got in quick for discectomy....cause simply too many elk packed and a life of fun and Not being careful on load balance and proper lifting for decades....have not had any further nerve pain but do and likely will always have to be careful on form and no heavy loads...don’t wish nerve pain on anyone it sucked...still having fun but no more load up heavy and go now load up light and more trips but who said getting old is fun