And now Walmart...

[ODB]

You see how this works??

SF Board of Supervisors declare National Rifle Association a domestic terrorist organization

 

[Ratbeetle]

Complacency is the same as helping. I agree with you about feel good legislation but the demand for change is loud and it's strong and it's COMING. It only needs the perception as positive change.

You want to keep what you have now? Better start admitting there is a problem that's needs a solution and provide some alternative solutions. Like I said be pro active or reactive, but the world is changing very quickly.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Keep what we have? How is that working out for guys who bought bump stocks?

You're kidding yourself if you have any illusion that we will be allowed to keep what we have. The antis will not stop until it is all gone. Why help them?

 

[Ratbeetle]

You see how this works??

SF Board of Supervisors declare National Rifle Association a domestic terrorist organization

Exactly my point. After Vegas, the NRA was very vocal in favor of restricting bumpstocks. Capitulate to the left, get labeled a terrorist organization anyway. Sounds like a winning strategy for gun owners.

Nothing will ever be enough.

 

[realunlucky]

Nothing will ever be enough.

I agree, the goal posts will just move and the agenda is unchanged.

So now how will you address the current tend of mass shootings? Doing nothing isn't going to work.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[RockinU]

Which was that guns probably shouldn’t have been sold in mega-marts. Still stand by that. And no need to put hundreds in quotes.

You have to start thinking rhetorically about what putting guns in discount stores does to the consumer. How they perceive it, value it - how it fits into their world. Regardless of the 4473, when you can fill out a 4473, then while they are running the check, you can go pick up some pudding, a carton of cigarettes and a ham sandwich, there is very little space between those items. I think there SHOULD be greater space between those items. Even though to a guy who is familiar with guns, a gun is a tool, etc., as society changes and the epistemological understanding of what a gun is changes due to how it’s represented in pop culture, I think there is a decided irresponsibility in selling guns en masse just because you can, and it brings in a certain demographic to your store.

We spend a lot of time putting space between the way we hunt and fish (west/east, public/private land, fly/gear), yet when it comes time to think about guns, everyone gets all egalitarian which is understandable given the consequences. I’m just saying perhaps, perhaps, had we gone about things in a different way, we wouldn’t be where we are right now.

You seem to be implying that big stores selling guns is a construct of the Walmart age, but that is not correct. I remember when Sears, JCPenny, and Western Auto all sold guns. Lots of Department type stores did going way back. You could go in, buy a hammer, a washing machine, get the wife some new panties, and pick up a new 30-06 all in one stop. Where's the difference?

 

[realunlucky]

You seem to be implying that big stores selling guns is a construct of the Walmart age, but that is not correct. I remember when Sears, JCPenny, and Western Auto all sold guns. Lots of Department type stores did going way back. You could go in, buy a hammer, a washing machine, get the wife some new panties, and pick up a new 30-06 all in one stop. Where's the difference?

Rural America has used this model since westward expansion. It was what made Wal-Mart gold standard in these markets. Everything for everyone where other choices are slim to none.
Now they want to abandon these customers and dictate what values are acceptable in 2019. I'd love to see these customers the backbone of Walmart corporation turn their nose up and shop elsewhere, but of course now alternative choices are slim and none.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[Trial153]

Hand wringing and Complacency is a losing Strategy. Unfortunately it also seems to be the most prevalent one on the pro 2a side.
So what's the alternative? Do we have one? Because the status quo is no longer palatable to the majority of the non committed population.

 

[Tango1]

You see how this works??

SF Board of Supervisors declare National Rifle Association a domestic terrorist organization

This should scare the heck out of people

 

[RockinU]

Rural America has used this model since westward expansion. It was what made Wal-Mart gold standard in these markets. Everything for everyone where other choices are slim to none.
Now they want to abandon these customers and dictate what values are acceptable in 2019. I'd love to see these customers the backbone of Walmart corporation turn their nose up and shop elsewhere, but of course now alternative choices are slim and none.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

Maybe in some extreme places, but I live in a town of less than 100K, and we have at least 4 alternatives to buying guns at Walmart. I've never bought a gun from them. If anyone is letting Walmart dictate their values, then they have pressing issues they need to address before they worry too much about their gun rights.

 

[ODB]

You seem to be implying that big stores selling guns is a construct of the Walmart age, but that is not correct. I remember when Sears, JCPenny, and Western Auto all sold guns. Lots of Department type stores did going way back. You could go in, buy a hammer, a washing machine, get the wife some new panties, and pick up a new 30-06 all in one stop. Where's the difference?

The times have changed, and society did not do a good job of stemming the loss of moral behaviour. Thus, we have grown a society (or a portion thereof) that cannot seem to control itself. The loss of moral behaviour combined with the marketization of guns by many different means has reshaped peoples relationships with guns - and not for the better.

Think about it this way: the left says ARs are weapons of war, the right loses its mind. Preppers, tactical weapons and means practitioners, and average Joes buy ARs and ammo in preparation for...what? Peace? No, confrontation, i.e. war. So, on the one hand, ARs are NOT weapons of war, but if you try to come take them, you’ll have a war on your hands. At least so say some.

Can you see the reason why gun folks are in such a quandary??

 

[X-file]

Maybe the chain stores caving to pressures and showing their true colors will help small businesses redevelop. Maybe that’s just crazy talk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

I support Mall warts right to drop any product they want. You all should too. It's the freedom we wish to have here.

I think its a stupid policy that will have absolutely no impact on crime and will likely alienate some customers.

On a side note, we keep hearing about the massive firearms industry holding our politicians hostage with all their money. The blood is on their hands they say. I got curious about the alcohol industry and their impact on our poor defenseless population.

Turns out alcohol sales in America generate north of $250,000,000,000 That's 250 Billion dollars for those of you who got tired of counting zeros. Nearly $15,000,000 is spent on lobbying each year. Alcohol leads to roughly 88,000 deaths a year in America. North of 10,000 die in DUI related crashes each year.

The firearms industry, this gigantic behemoth, is around $17-$18 Billion. 5.5 Million dollars are spent lobbying. 33,000 are killed by firearms annually. I don't think the 1 million defensive uses of alcohol per year statistic would hold up to scrutiny the same as for firearms.

I don't think I would reach for a bottle of jack to defend my family in the middle of the night, a gun on the other hand...

 

[AK Troutbum]

I just read in the paper yesterday that Alaska Walmart’s were the last hold outs for selling handguns and now they won’t be selling those anymore. I’ve never been a WM fan and try to stay out of that place for the most part, but I may be in the market for a new handgun now, depending on how badly they want to liquidate them. Assuming they are going to liquidate them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisAU]

Bet they'll still sell extremely unhealthy food and cigarettes that directly kill many many many many times more people than guns do. I guess killing yourself by eating yourself to death or sucking down cigarettes is a personal decision, but shooting someone with a gun is the gun's fault.

 

[kravguy]

This should scare the heck out of people

From a city that openly allows crapping in the sidewalk, and is proud to be a sanctuary city...

 

[Rmauch20]

From a city that openly allows crapping in the sidewalk, and is proud to be a sanctuary city...

Don’t forget safe places to shoot up heroin.

 

[Rmauch20]

That’s fine, I don’t support it any more than you do. But we are where we are ...the question remains, from here, how do we NOT lose more ground but GAIN some? I don’t have the answer, just my own thoughts.

We don’t. The nra is a mess due to their own greed and mismanagement. We haven’t been able to gain ground....ever. You have Democratic candidates calling for mandatory buybacks of certain type of firearms. Unless this next election it’s just a crushing defeat for them, I don’t think it will be, they are going to keep pushing for more restrictions guns and ammo.

 

[Newtosavage]

The times have changed, and society did not do a good job of stemming the loss of moral behaviour.

Ask people who used to have to drink at "colored" water fountains and use "colored" bathrooms about the "loss of moral behavior."

A lot of people want to send us back the 50's while ignoring all the progress that has been made in this country toward equal rights for women and minorities.

Maybe that isn't what you mean by that, but it sure is what a lot of people mean.

I have zero problems with the business decision. This is America and businesses should be free to sell what they want to who they want, within the law. If a cake maker doesn't want to sell a cake to a certain person, for example, they shouldn't have to.

My guess is all the same people who claim have to stopped watching the NFL will also claim to stop shopping at Wal-mart, even though they still do both. It sounds good to their friends though.

 

[RockinU]

The times have changed, and society did not do a good job of stemming the loss of moral behaviour. Thus, we have grown a society (or a portion thereof) that cannot seem to control itself. The loss of moral behaviour combined with the marketization of guns by many different means has reshaped peoples relationships with guns - and not for the better.

Think about it this way: the left says ARs are weapons of war, the right loses its mind. Preppers, tactical weapons and means practitioners, and average Joes buy ARs and ammo in preparation for...what? Peace? No, confrontation, i.e. war. So, on the one hand, ARs are NOT weapons of war, but if you try to come take them, you’ll have a war on your hands. At least so say some.

Can you see the reason why gun folks are in such a quandary??

Ok, this is kind of all over the place, so I'm going to try to address it point by point.

Who is selling the gun does not impact society's ability to do a good job of stemming "the loss of moral behavior", or affect morality in any measurable way. I guess I can see how you could conflate loss or morality and self-control, but I still don't see where Walmart selling guns fits with any of that. I'm really lost on the marketization thing, guns have never been price fixed, or supported that I'm aware of, they have always been subject to market forces. As for people's relating to guns, people have always seen different things in guns according to the uses they have for them, that isn't new.

As for your nest paragraph...I guess there are some crazy fringe militia types who think they might be preparing for some sort of armed conflict, but I think they make up such a small part of the gun buying public as to not even warrant discussion. I know a lot of AR owners, and I don't know any like you describe.

I understand that "gun folks" are in a lot of quandaries...but I'm not sure to which one you are referring.

And finally, I don't see how any of this relates to the question as to how it's any different for today's Walmart to sell guns, than 60 years ago Sears and JCPenny selling guns...

 

[Newtosavage]

The times have changed, and society did not do a good job of stemming the loss of moral behaviour. Thus, we have grown a society (or a portion thereof) that cannot seem to control itself. The loss of moral behaviour combined with the marketization of guns by many different means has reshaped peoples relationships with guns - and not for the better.

Think about it this way: the left says ARs are weapons of war, the right loses its mind. Preppers, tactical weapons and means practitioners, and average Joes buy ARs and ammo in preparation for...what? Peace? No, confrontation, i.e. war. So, on the one hand, ARs are NOT weapons of war, but if you try to come take them, you’ll have a war on your hands. At least so say some.

Can you see the reason why gun folks are in such a quandary??

Here's my take...

I don't remember people being gun nuts back in the 70's and 80's. I was raised in an extremely conservative family, and some of the very same relatives and friends of mine who might be seen as "doomsday preppers" today, could take or leave their guns back in those days. None of them carried, or even had guns in their vehicles unless it was a .22 in the back window for pot shots at the occasional yote.

But today, those very same people are pushing 2A agenda on their FB pages, stocking up on ammo, buying their 4th or 5th concealed carry handgun, building AR's and going through thousands of rounds of ammo each year.

Same people. Very different behaviors. So what changed?

The rhetoric changed. The propaganda changed. That's what. Someone somewhere figured out that if they scared those gun owners enough, they could essentially lock in their vote. First they scared them with stories about crime. Because they knew that would make those people want to buy more guns. Then they scared them with stories about "the gubment" coming to take those guns, and that triggered their "freedom" gene. And once that happened, they were a lock. They were guaranteed to keep those voters so long as they kept the fear streaming. Fear of crime, fear of guns being taken, and now fear of immigrants.

It keeps those votes locked in, regardless of what else is going on, or who the candidate is.

Gun owners have been played in this way for the past 25 years. Wayne LaPierre is an evil genius IMO and he and others have carefully orchestrated this whole thing. They are okay with our streets being flooded with cheap handguns because it helps their friends in the gun industry and it helps get their candidates votes, who in turn defend those friends in the gun industry.

Nevermind the fact that crime is down significantly over that same period of time. Just keep the fear coming and you can lock in those votes. Plain and simple.

This is how I see it based on my own observations of friends and family that I know, their behavior and the things they say and do over the past 30 or so years.

I'm a gun owner and I enjoy using my hunting rifles. I enjoy shooting, reloading and I enjoy the history behind many firearms. But I'm not going to be blindly led by the nose down a path some deranged zealot with political motivations when the facts simply do not support anything they say. I remember very well when Bush Sr. withdrew his membership from the NRA and I still think it's one of the most brave and bold moves I've ever seen. It's just one of many things I admire him for.

His letter to the organization stated that “your broadside against Federal agents deeply offends my own sense of decency and honor; and it offends my concept of service to country. It indirectly slanders a wide array of government law enforcement officials, who are out there, day and night, laying their lives on the line for all of us.”
Bush was of an era where it was important to recognize who the good guys were and who the bad guys were. Comparing U.S. law enforcement to Nazis while advocating for irresponsible gun policy would have been tough for a guy like Bush to swallow. So he didn’t.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...blic-rejection-nra-exemplified-his-ncna944086