AK Sheep, Population Observations

[BeastOfTheTrees]

$250 dollar bounty paid by the state for each wolf shot. $50 per coyote. Golden Eagle populations need to be studied and cropped a bit by predator control. There are some areas where hunting pairs of Golden Eagles have gotten too good at cropping ewes and lambs. They force bands of sheep into some more marginal feeding areas and that impacts winter survival. I am not going to say more about it but predator control is key. There are some areas of the state because of access and expenses of transportation that actually have numbers of mature "trophy" rams. The golden days of TMA and DCUA are over. Central and more western Alaska range are getting pummeled. Eventually the North Wrangells will start to fall because of hunting pressure. Those very effective Golden Eagle pairs need to be cropped in the Chugach, Kenai, Talkeetna and Central Alaska Ranges.

Wait a second, $250 dollar bounty on wolves. Is that statewide or no.

 

[Nick Muche]

Wait a second, $250 dollar bounty on wolves. Is that statewide or no.

There’s no bounty, he’s just saying in a perfect world (Sheep focused, moose focused, caribou focused) there would be…. Or even better, like it used to be, and folks could manage the predators in their area to a level that would promote a robust ungulate population… you know, for simple things like food.

 

[Sourdough]

The current reality is there is less to zero chance of ever getting a bounty on wolves.....Zero.
There is a much higher probability of all trophy hunting being illegal. If that went on a state wide vote, as liberal as Alaska has become.

I remember when we could hunt Polar Bears, I think that closed in roughly 72' or 73'. I could sure see, the "chance" of Dall Sheep becoming fully protected, and closed to all hunting......Forever. At some point in the future.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

There’s no bounty, he’s just saying in a perfect world (Sheep focused, moose focused, caribou focused) there would be…. Or even better, like it used to be, and folks could manage the predators in their area to a level that would promote a robust ungulate population… you know, for simple things like food.

Phew, started packing my go bag and .300 Wby lol. I’d go in a heartbeat for something like that.

 

[wantj43]

This thread has been mostly ram-centric, as it should be for a hunting talk. But taking sub-legal rams and second degree of kindred has nothing to do with the lack of ewes on the mountain. There just aren't many sheep!

You are right the taking of sub-legal rams has nothing to do with lack of ewes - but does impact “opportunity” by removing animals that have the potential of being legally harvested is a year or so. Wounding lost - which is the gorilla in the room, potentially has the same impact.

 

[Bambistew]

Wounding lost - which is the gorilla in the room, potentially has the same impact.

How high do you think wounding loss is? 5% - 25-30 rams a year, more? Its pretty rare to hear of someone shooting a ram and not finding it. I've heard of a couple over the years, but just curious if its a guess or if there has been some sort of effort to quantify it. Also do you really think its has that much of an impact?

 

[wantj43]

How high do you think wounding loss is? 5% - 25-30 rams a year, more? Its pretty rare to hear of someone shooting a ram and not finding it. I've heard of a couple over the years, but just curious if its a guess or if there has been some sort of effort to quantify it. Also do you really think its has that much of an impact?

Scott in the 1951 summary of the Chugach-Talkeetna permit hunt states "The number of rams escaping after being hit amounted to about 5% of the total kill." Obviously this does not necessarily indicate the mortality rate. Other studies involving ungulates report wounding rates from about 15 to 40 percent. Several studies have involved collared animals.

 

[FairbanksFlies]

The good news would be that with no sheep on the mountain, a wounding loss rate of 5% will be a low number. The bad news is that there are no sheep on the mountain.

 

[Sourdough]

Is there a "danger" that the Federal Government, (who may not control game management and harvest) does control the "lands" they manage, might jump in and declare an emergency, resulting the closure of sheep hunting to protect the survival of the species.........on Federal managed lands.

Or worse......the expansion of more National Parks an Preserve Land.

Remember if put to a vote, likely 98% of Americans would like "ALL" of Alaska turned into National Park.

 

[Fullcry]

I’m not gonna lie.
You come up with some stupid stuff.

 

[Sourdough]

I’m not gonna lie.
You come up with some stupid stuff.

After 52 years of having watched huge chunks of The Wrangell Mountains, Alaska Range, Brooks Range, Chugach Mountains, Kenai Mountain Range, turned into Parks, You learn who is "Driving The Bus".

My point which "Clearly" escaped your comprehension, is if Alaska can't handle Game Management, the Federal Government will.

Alaska may be in charge of game management, but the Federal Government controls what is "allowed" and what is prohibited on Federal Lands.

Is it beyond your comprehension. that Joe Biden, might desire to add some more chunks of Alaska into National Parks. Maybe close all hunting in the "National WILDLIFE Refuge".

Could you "not" see how convenient, and politically expedient it would be to say, "National Wildlife Refuges" should be a refuge for wildlife, and not a Trophy Hunting area.
I think that would be an easy sell, for a President looking to up his approval rating.

 

[Fullcry]

Again
You come up with some stupid stuff.
Just so we are “clear” I remember the 70s just as much as you do.
New to this site,not new to hunting.
Then again maybe you didn’t spend the 60s and 70s “Clear” which would explain a lot.
Get outside, get some oxygen.
“Clear” the air in the bunker.

 

[Sourdough]

Again
You come up with some stupid stuff.
Just so we are “clear” I remember the 70s just as much as you do.
New to this site,not new to hunting.

And exactly how much were you remembering, in 1970 when you were still in diapers.

Exactly how many Dall Sheep did you Harvest in the year 1970......??? How about 72' or 73'.....???

 

[Fullcry]

In fairness you are correct not a single one.
But that didn’t mean I wasn’t carrying a gun.
It was a few years after 72 that I could pick one up again.

 

[fatbacks]

https://soundcloud.com/caleb-martin-552317481%2Fepisode-27-dall-sheep-101-part-1-mixdown%2Fs-u4h0dPc9WKj

I think if everyone on here listened to this it would pretty much solve every argument here.

It is a fantastic listen and very informative... especially if you like listening about sheep hunting, conservation and biology.

 

[Sourdough]

Then again maybe you didn’t spend the 60s and 70s “Clear” which would explain a lot.

I was guiding hunters, back then, in Idaho and Alaska. And if your inferring the use of recreational drugs, "Sorry" I never did that. I have consumed a lot of Tequila in the last nearly sixty years.

 

[wantj43]

I think if everyone on here listened to this it would pretty much solve every argument here.

It is a fantastic listen and very informative... especially if you like listening about sheep hunting, conservation and biology.

 

[kwackkillncrew]

Could you "not" see how convenient, and politically expedient it would be to say, "National Wildlife Refuges" should be a refuge for wildlife, and not a Trophy Hunting area.
I think that would be an easy sell, for a President looking to up his approval rating.

his approval rating doesnt mean anything for him. He is far too old to ever run again.

also what about hunting and not "trophy" hunting.
agl4now

 

[kaboku68]

Have you folks noticed the difference between Sourdough's posts and wantj43? I wonder why?

 

[oenanthe]

Have you folks noticed the difference between Sourdough's posts and wantj43? I wonder why?

I think we can all agree that Joe should post here more often!