A health revolution brewing?

[Customweld]

I started seeing my wife's Dr. I originally thought she was a kook, but as it turned out, she's ok. I get blood panels done twice a year. She has me come in for the blood pull and then calls me back in when the results are in. We talk about where everything is sitting, how it compares from last time and what I need to be doing, going forward. Since I quit drinking a year and a half ago, my BP is down significantly, T is up 200 points, triglycerides are in the 90's. Like I said earlier, my wife and I eat pretty clean and have for a long time. The alcohol was tearing me up.

 

[dreamingWest]

I'm of the increasing believe that civilization may have reach its peak in the 1990s.

Haha. Peak civilization likely occurred sometime around Whitney Houston singing the national anthem at Super XXV.

 

[HighUintas]

Haha. Peak civilization likely occurred sometime around Whitney Houston singing the national anthem at Super XXV.

I would say it started it's downward trend when Justin Timberlake (?) helped Janet Jackson show her it to the world during the super bowl half time show

 

[CorbLand]

huh. If a guy can do that without additional processing fees it seems like a good idea.

Yea, I would be curious to how one does it as well. Thats like 300 bucks a year in points.

 

[fwafwow]

Keys and his 7 (22) countries study got the ball rolling on this calamitous decline in the overall health of the western world…and the rest of the world is catching up fast.

It constantly amazes me how easy it is to find (and confirm) these facts and histories, but when I try to tell people, they look at me like I have two heads.

 

[mjh]

Our food is literally killing us in this country.

Yea got that right, just read the ingredients........so much $$$$ for quick and expedient and the medicine machine

 

[fwafwow]

I'm sure that lawyers, and patients who hire them in the hopes of a payday, impact some of the problems.

But lawyers didn't create the U.S. Dietary Guidelines, or perpetuate their inaccuracies. Those can be traced (at least in part) to McGovern, combined with food and pharma companies. And insurance companies aren't helpful at all, even though one would think their goal (pay out less) would match up with prevention.

If doctors are still beholden to the treatment guidelines/standard of care, some of which seem to take forever to change, then they will continue to push statins for cholesterol, Ozempic for fat people, or whatever, even though they probably haven't spent any time researching the effectiveness, or side effects. And absolutely patients reinforce all of that - as it is certainly easier to take a pill than to make any changes.

Replying to my own post (smh), and not for the first time.

I’m not intending to sweep all medical professionals into the same category. There are excellent folks doing hard work, including some RS friends. That there are exceptions speaks even more to their quality as people, as that means they have reached that result *notwithstanding* a system that discourages that outcome.

 

[arudelic]

Interested to see if there is a large body of data supporting the premise that our health is declining overall.

 

[fwafwow]

Interested to see if there is a large body of data supporting the premise that our health is declining overall.

If you are legitimately interested, I’d be happy to delve into it. Others may already be able to point to the data. Otherwise, what is a good measure of health? And it need not be limited to one. Thinking out loud - it could be life expectancy. I could see having a population in which life expectancy has increased dramatically over long time periods, but with variance in shorter time periods (2020-21 being an example). I would think that prevalence of disease, mental illness, etc. could also be important measures.

 

[Split toe]

This is true to a point.

I work in emergency medicine. The old school ER docs have no issue telling people like it is. They order fewer meds, order fewer tests and have no issues telling people they are fat.

The new ER docs were trained to make people happy. And they will tell you that. One ER doc told me recently “everyone who buys a ticket to the show (ER) gets a popcorn and a drink.”

It can be all traced back to effing lawyers.

EM doc here. Lawyers are a factor along with patient satisfaction scores. Hospital admin is not going to allow somebody to "tell people like it is" and piss off every patient that comes through the door and lose business. Society is soft today.

I'm sure that lawyers, and patients who hire them in the hopes of a payday, impact some of the problems.

But lawyers didn't create the U.S. Dietary Guidelines, or perpetuate their inaccuracies. Those can be traced (at least in part) to McGovern, combined with food and pharma companies. And insurance companies aren't helpful at all, even though one would think their goal (pay out less) would match up with prevention.

If doctors are still beholden to the treatment guidelines/standard of care, some of which seem to take forever to change, then they will continue to push statins for cholesterol, Ozempic for fat people, or whatever, even though they probably haven't spent any time researching the effectiveness, or side effects. And absolutely patients reinforce all of that - as it is certainly easier to take a pill than to make any changes.

It isn't all on doctors, they/we can't make people diet and exercise/eat right. Let's face it, the majority of people want the easy fix, a pill.

Doctors? I think you mean "provider".....


I'm joking, but isn't that the strangest thing about modern medicine...."I'll be your provider". Living in 1984 lol

The term "provider" is just hospital admin lingo to confuse patients with the difference between physicians and midlevels to give the appearance they are somehow equal to justify cheaper labor.

 

[GMax]

Take a look at most people you see. Obesity is beyond epidemic. Most people eat
food-like products not real food. Junk in a box, feeding the pharma companies who have convinced people that they need a pill for everything. And those pills complete the toxic merry go round making you even fatter and sicker. And the pharma and fake food companies richer

 

[maxx075]

Take a look at most people you see. Obesity is beyond epidemic. Most people eat
food-like products not real food. Junk in a box, feeding the pharma companies who have convinced people that they need a pill for everything. And those pills complete the toxic merry go round making you even fatter and sicker. And the pharma and fake food companies richer

Obesity? There's an Ozempic for that.

 

[mt terry d]

I went into a doctor to have an annoying sebacious (sp?) cyst removed from my back. I pulled off my shirt and he says “ oh, you’re fit! Do you eat healthy?” I said “Yes, mostly red meat, mainly Elk, eggs, bacon, cheese some beer and wine. I avoid vegetables and fruit” He says “The Chinese did a study and found if you want to live long to eat a plant based diet “. I said “ I’m more interested in living well and I’m not Chinese “.

 

[*zap*]

a fattie revolution is what we have, mostly....

 

[JDBAK]

Hey! What's wrong with a little Velveeta over your tortilla chips?? Bahaha

Health care is an interesting business, particularly when that's where you've spent your whole career. Education regarding nutrition can vary from program to program but far too often it's just the necessary basics for the clinical role being preformed. But in general it's farrrr more than the basic non clinical lay person will have ... including all the "I read a book...I studied it on the Internet...my [fill in the blank] is a nutritionist and they said ...". And generally most physician practices and hospitals have a highly trained dietician available to them and the patient.

Regarding the food topic, when we shop, we take a pretty basic approach - we take any and all ingredient labels as warning labels. If we can avoid it, we do. We tend to eat a little lean meat, vegetables of many different kinds, and fruit. And hopefully no restaurants depend on us to keep them afloat. We eat out so infrequently it gets hard to remember the last time we did at times.

My major gripe with this is not the amount of training in nutrition doctors and health care provides, it’s what is taught.

Having highly trained dietitians in the same building scares the hell out of me.

Honestly, the whole medical system would be better off to just stop telling us what to eat for long term health and starting over from scratch.

I put more stock in nutrition lore from old wives and illiterate Stone Age shaman high on hallucinagens. Their reasoning may be screwy, but their advice does a better job of standing up to the test of time and contact with reality.

 

[fwafwow]

I went into a doctor to have an annoying sebacious (sp?) cyst removed from my back. I pulled off my shirt and he says “ oh, you’re fit! Do you eat healthy?” I said “Yes, mostly red meat, mainly Elk, eggs, bacon, cheese some beer and wine. I avoid vegetables and fruit” He says “The Chinese did a study and found if you want to live long to eat a plant based diet “. I said “ I’m more interested in living well and I’m not Chinese “.

Great reply. I'd love to see that study. And I'm sure that study didn't "find" anything, perhaps apart with identifying an association.

Has anyone ever had their doctor mention there is at least one study that found an association between high LDL-C and CVD mortality that suggests the higher the LDL, the longer you live (at least after certain ages) - and then told you to increase your cholesterol numbers?

 

[*zap*]

healthy folks don't need the health care system....

 

[fwafwow]

If you are legitimately interested, I’d be happy to delve into it. Others may already be able to point to the data. Otherwise, what is a good measure of health? And it need not be limited to one. Thinking out loud - it could be life expectancy. I could see having a population in which life expectancy has increased dramatically over long time periods, but with variance in shorter time periods (2020-21 being an example). I would think that prevalence of disease, mental illness, etc. could also be important measures.

I see that the question raised was almost certainly designed to hit the 10 post count. You made it!

So, talking more to myself, it seems that it is pretty hard to measure health - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53336/ - but there appears to be some agreement that life expectancy doesn't reflect quality of life factors. Here's a study that references declines in health in the US - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6221922/. I am sure there are others, but I have to go hit the classifieds!

 

[*zap*]

I know a guy that can barley walk.....very, very big boy. Posts pics of big barbecue meals on fb regularly....I just don't understand that mentality but it is somewhat prevalent in our society.

 

[Weldor]

I asked my doctor and he agreed based on my cholesterol numbers. He was expecting decent blockage and was making threats about statins being prescribed. I got the scan and had a 1. 0 is no blockage. Scale goes up into the hundreds so its not 1-10. Insurance usually doesn't cover it, but it was 99 bucks. Doctor recommended I get one very year and I agree due to family history.

Side note-I eaten poorly most of the time throughout adulthood. I worked in the field 20 years and I think the activity is what helped. I think I would be in dire straights if I had been sitting at a desk. Family history of heart attacks and cardiovascular disease. But you never know without the real data.

Did mine last year, all good. My cost was just under $500, like you said insurance does not cover it.