9mm for bear protection, even grizz!?

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I've been shopping around for some time pricing out 10mm handguns for bear protection. My next hunt is coming up fast, and I may not be able to swing a new pistol before we leave. As a result, I got to looking around at 9mm ammo and ran across the Buffalo Bore +P outdoorsman rounds. Apparently these hard cast rounds are extremely reliable and accurate according to the manufacturer. In addition, there is a story on the 9mm Outdoorsman page of an Alaskan guide that killed a large charging grizz with these bullets.

Given their price, reliability, and proven real world effectiveness, is there a good reason not to simply stock up and practice with these in my high-cap Ruger?

 

[KHNC]

I was considering this same ammo for my .40 G-23. I have a 9mm but only 7 round capacity and short barrel.

 

[Dos Perros]

I think you take what you got.

There was a guy that looked at something like 97 defenses of aggressive bears with firearms. He noted successful defenses even down to the 22 LR.

I haven't quite contemplated the wisdom of it yet (and I haven't done it yet), but I am considering taking my 9mm into grizz country over my 10mm because I shoot it better.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

but I am considering taking my 9mm into grizz country over my 10mm because I shoot it better.

Enough said right there buddy. After watching several videos on here and elsewhere of charging bear simulations, I'm convinced that a full size or compact semi-auto is going to give you increased likelihood of delivering rounds into a hostile bear than even the slickest DA revolver. My Ruger holds 17, and even if not as powerful as the 10mm, if I shoot it well and can land more rounds in the target, I think that is the best choice.

 

[Dos Perros]

Enough said right there buddy. After watching several videos on here and elsewhere of charging bear simulations, I'm convinced that a full size or compact semi-auto is going to give you increased likelihood of delivering rounds into a hostile bear than even the slickest DA revolver. My Ruger holds 17, and even if not as powerful as the 10mm, if I shoot it well and can land more rounds in the target, I think that is the best choice.

Well I'd say do your research. I'm a flatlander like you so it's not like I'm in grizzly country as often as some others here.

 

[Btaylor]

I've been shopping around for some time pricing out 10mm handguns for bear protection. My next hunt is coming up fast, and I may not be able to swing a new pistol before we leave. As a result, I got to looking around at 9mm ammo and ran across the Buffalo Bore +P outdoorsman rounds. Apparently these hard cast rounds are extremely reliable and accurate according to the manufacturer. In addition, there is a story on the 9mm Outdoorsman page of an Alaskan guide that killed a large charging grizz with these bullets.

Given their price, reliability, and proven real world effectiveness, is there a good reason not to simply stock up and practice with these in my high-cap Ruger?

I carry my 9 with that ammo but I havent hunted in grizz country, just have black bears and hogs here and add cats in CO.

 

[Elk97]

Whatever you feel comfortable with. Just keep in mind that with a charging grizzly you will probably only have time for one or two shots (some might argue this but based on reading a lot of actual cases this is what I'm planning on) so you've got to ask yourself if what you're carrying will take down a huge griz with one/two shots. I hunt in heavy griz area every year and used to carry a 357 mag with BBore ammo. Decided that wasn't enough and changed to 44 mag. Still not sure that's enough considering the size of some of the bears we've seen but I shoot it well. It's a bad feeling to wonder if you are undergunned after seeing a griz at 40 yards that's 5' tall at the shoulder. Not interested in arguing, this is just my opinion.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Well I'd say do your research. I'm a flatlander like you so it's not like I'm in grizzly country as often as some others here.

I spent 7 days deep in grizz country (Bob Marshall Wilderness) last fall. The outfit we hunted with has been in the area more than 30 years. A few observations from guys with way more experience than I'll ever have in the big bear woods:

1- They don't believe in bear spray whatsoever due to erratic wind conditions in the mountains, the potential to disable the hunter, and preventing a guy from saving himself.
2- For guided hunts they don't recommend clients carry sidearms. Each guide carried a short-barreled Winchester or Marlin lever action guide gun with iron sights in .45-70 that never left their side. In their view, sidearms are just added weight and unnecessary when the guide has back up rifle nd the hunter has a rifle.
3- For DIY hunters without a guide or hunting partner, having a sidearm for backup "may" make sense, especially when an animal is down and your processing it.
4- The camp cook carried a sidearm at all times, mostly for curious black bears, but nonetheless, she was always armed. She carried a Springfield Hellcat in 9mm.

 

[bow_dozer]

If a Griz wants ya and its your time to go, he will run thru a 10 just like he will a 9 IMO.
Whatever you carry, practice and be proficient. Have it become muscle memory drawing your weapon. Have been with some people who didn't even have one chambered... What's the point of having a gun?

 

[bow_dozer]

I spent 7 days deep in grizz country (Bob Marshall Wilderness) last fall. The outfit we hunted with has been in the area more than 30 years. A few observations from guys with way more experience than I'll ever have in the big bear woods:

1- They don't believe in bear spray whatsoever due to erratic wind conditions in the mountains, the potential to disable the hunter, and preventing a guy from saving himself.
2- For guided hunts they don't recommend clients carry sidearms. Each guide carried a short-barreled Winchester or Marlin lever action guide gun with iron sights in .45-70 that never left their side. In their view, sidearms are just added weight and unnecessary when the guide has back up rifle nd the hunter has a rifle.
3- For DIY hunters without a guide or hunting partner, having a sidearm for backup "may" make sense, especially when an animal is down and your processing it.
4- The camp cook carried a sidearm at all times, mostly for curious black bears, but nonetheless, she was always armed. She carried a Springfield Hellcat in 9mm.

After we got a bull down, we came in the next morning with shotgun/338. Still gets the nerves going, but i will say more horsepower aids a little comfort than my 10.

 

[Huntnnw]

Enough said right there buddy. After watching several videos on here and elsewhere of charging bear simulations, I'm convinced that a full size or compact semi-auto is going to give you increased likelihood of delivering rounds into a hostile bear than even the slickest DA revolver. My Ruger holds 17, and even if not as powerful as the 10mm, if I shoot it well and can land more rounds in the target, I think that is the best choice.

you ever been charged? from your reply probably not. Your round capacity means chit in the moment. That 1st shot you take will be your best shot after that its chaos. That 1st one better hit home

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

you ever been charged? from your reply probably not. Your round capacity means chit in the moment. That 1st shot you take will be your best shot after that its chaos. That 1st one better hit home

No, I have not been charged. I agree that the first shot counts, however, how many bear/human encounters were ended with one shot from a pistol, I have no idea? The guide on BB page fired 4 or 5 rounds at spitting distance from his compact S&W 9mm. I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket, re: one shot on a charging bruin. As a result, I will be practing drawing and firing fast at close range with my gong.

BB and Underwood both have +P 147 grain 9mm hard cast rounds. According to the BB page, "This load is designed to penetrate deeply (4 to 6 feet) in a straight line, through flesh and bones". Underwood has 115 grain +P and +P+ "penetrator" rounds designed for dangerous game. My Ruger 9E holds 17+1, and I can draw and fire it much faster and more accurately than my Taurus Tracker in .357, which only holds 7 rounds.

 

[dtrkyman]

The outfitter recommending clients not carry is from a stand point of not trusting his clients with a sidearm I would guess?

If I were proficient with a pistol and in grizz country I am carrying, regardless of the guides/outfitters recommendation!

Confidence is king, carry what you use well!

I would feel most comfortable with a shotgun, practical maybe not but I can shoot one off of pure instinct, no thought required!

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

The outfitter recommending clients not carry is from a stand point of not trusting his clients with a sidearm I would guess?

If I were proficient with a pistol and in grizz country I am carrying, regardless of the guides/outfitters recommendation!

Confidence is king, carry what you use well!

I would feel most comfortable with a shotgun, practical maybe not but I can shoot one off of pure instinct, no thought required!

They didn't recommend it, but they let guys carry if they were more comfortable. My brother and I both had revolvers in Razcos the first couple days. They indeed got heavy and were awkward when riding horses with scabbards. The stock of your rifle would sometimes swing towards your core, and that bino harness and pistol would get jarred and jab you in the gut. We ended up removing the Razcos/pistols for comfort and our neck and shoulders thanked us.

 

[Estiva]

I've been shopping around for some time pricing out 10mm handguns for bear protection. My next hunt is coming up fast, and I may not be able to swing a new pistol before we leave. As a result, I got to looking around at 9mm ammo and ran across the Buffalo Bore +P outdoorsman rounds. Apparently these hard cast rounds are extremely reliable and accurate according to the manufacturer. In addition, there is a story on the 9mm Outdoorsman page of an Alaskan guide that killed a large charging grizz with these bullets.

Given their price, reliability, and proven real world effectiveness, is there a good reason not to simply stock up and practice with these in my high-cap Ruger?

I had the same decision to make up until a couple of weeks ago, until I "bit the bullet" and purchased a S&W M&P 10MM.

I've been shopping around for some time pricing out 10mm handguns for bear protection. My next hunt is coming up fast, and I may not be able to swing a new pistol before we leave. As a result, I got to looking around at 9mm ammo and ran across the Buffalo Bore +P outdoorsman rounds. Apparently these hard cast rounds are extremely reliable and accurate according to the manufacturer. In addition, there is a story on the 9mm Outdoorsman page of an Alaskan guide that killed a large charging grizz with these bullets.

Given their price, reliability, and proven real world effectiveness, is there a good reason not to simply stock up and practice with these in my high-cap Ruger?

Hi JJohnson,

I was in a similar situatuation as you are up until a couple of weeks ago. My son and I are traveling to Glacier NP/Bitteroot Range in Montana and Idaho later this month. This is a backpacking trip, not hunting, but nevertheless we'll be in the heart of Grizzly country, and we will need protection from bears, moose and other creatures. We are relatively new gun owners. My 9MM is a S&W SD9 VE; my son has a Canik TP9SF. A couple of weeks ago I "bought the bullet" and purched the M&P 2.0 10MM with a 4.6" barrel (photo), after going back and forth (9 vs. 10) for months. Before the purchase, After much research, I too narrowed ammo down either the Buffalo Bore +P Outdoorsman or the Underwood Xtreme Penetrator +P, both in 9MM. My belief is you bring what you have and are most comfortable and accurate with if you are not able to purchase something with a higher caliber. I think shot placement (accuracy) is as important or more important than caliber (within reason, e.g. .44 magnum vs. a .38). Since I am more comfortable with my semi-automatic pistols with 15+1 capacity, I'd prefer these over a 6 capacity .44 magnum that kicks. Also, will you be by yourself or with others? With that said, I'm letting my son carry the 10MM (Underwood 200gr. hard cast), and I will carry the 9MM S&W (Underwood Xtreme Penetrator 115gr.). Here is our line of defense, in order: 1. prevention - avoiding encounters in the first place by making human noise, especially around trail bends, ridges, and brush. 2. bear spray - we have Udap pepper 2% capscium. This is the most humane (and safest) way to repel a bear or other large animal. 3. our sidearms. I don'think there is a clear-cut answer for you. There are differences of opinions and many variables. Good luck with your hunt.

 

[SWOHTR]

2- For guided hunts they don't recommend clients carry sidearms. Each guide carried a short-barreled Winchester or Marlin lever action guide gun with iron sights in .45-70 that never left their side. In their view, sidearms are just added weight and unnecessary when the guide has back up rifle nd the hunter has a rifle.

This is interesting. Some points and questions I have:
-Can they legally carry this in archery season?
If YES, then, to me this makes the most sense for a few reasons. One, no extra weight. Two, "bigger punch." Three, if you applied this to a group of hunters in a team, such as one caller and one shooter, if the caller carried the long gun then you'd never have to question "who the shooter is." Caller assumes duties as caller and bear defense. Shooter is focused on elk.

This is assuming you can legally carry a long gun in an archery season.

Failing this, you could strap a claymore to your chest. When the bear's on top of you, pull the cord and boom...no more bear (or you).

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

This is interesting. Some points and questions I have:
-Can they legally carry this in archery season?
If YES, then, to me this makes the most sense for a few reasons. One, no extra weight. Two, "bigger punch." Three, if you applied this to a group of hunters in a team, such as one caller and one shooter, if the caller carried the long gun then you'd never have to question "who the shooter is." Caller assumes duties as caller and bear defense. Shooter is focused on elk.

This is assuming you can legally carry a long gun in an archery season.

Failing this, you could strap a claymore to your chest. When the bear's on top of you, pull the cord and boom...no more bear (or you).

I don't know the regs. for archery season in MT, but I'm assuming if you are on a 1:1 or even 1:2 guided hunt the guide is allowed to carry bear protection. @mtwarden May be able to clarify this one for us.

 

[hobbes]

This is Montana, you can carry an RPG if you feel like it.

 

[SuspiciousFish]

I spent 7 days deep in grizz country (Bob Marshall Wilderness) last fall. The outfit we hunted with has been in the area more than 30 years. A few observations from guys with way more experience than I'll ever have in the big bear woods:

1- They don't believe in bear spray whatsoever due to erratic wind conditions in the mountains, the potential to disable the hunter, and preventing a guy from saving himself.
2- For guided hunts they don't recommend clients carry sidearms. Each guide carried a short-barreled Winchester or Marlin lever action guide gun with iron sights in .45-70 that never left their side. In their view, sidearms are just added weight and unnecessary when the guide has back up rifle nd the hunter has a rifle.
3- For DIY hunters without a guide or hunting partner, having a sidearm for backup "may" make sense, especially when an animal is down and your processing it.
4- The camp cook carried a sidearm at all times, mostly for curious black bears, but nonetheless, she was always armed. She carried a Springfield Hellcat in 9mm.

I would say one advantage of bear spray over a pistol is spray is effective to the point of contact and beyond while a pistol is effective for only a single shot or two if you can keep your nerves to aim. Even if being mauled you can spray the can over your back and hit the bear. Its going to suck really bad for you too but its better than being eaten.

 

[yfarm]

Own a Marlin 1895 Trapper 16” with Skinner peep and a G20 with ported Lone Wolf barrel, last week shot 405gr fn 45-70 and 225 gr 10mm at 25 yds as fast as I could work the lever and pull the trigger on the G. No comparison in the groups, am not an expert pistol shooter but shoot every other week. Also own a shockwave with a laser site, never have shot full power slugs out of it. Anyone have any experience with it in a bear interaction?