6mm and .223/5.56 ILLEGAL for big game in Alaska!

[5811]

I just love the term "knockdown power."

Did it knock you down when you shot? Do you think it gains energy in flight?!?

 

[Taudisio]

but what if my .223 has a Leopold on it??

 

[Thegman]

I just love the term "knockdown power."

Did it knock you down when you shot? Do you think it gains energy in flight?!?

Apparently the the 223 and 77TMK has a lot of knockdown power. That moose above dropped like it was hit with a bolt of lightning...

 

[AkMtnRunner]

The one correlation I've noticed from less experienced to more experienced bear guides, is the that latter care more about proficiency with the client's rifle over the size of the cartridge. If they have a minimum, it's usually a 270 or 308/30-06, probably because those are the smallest traditional hunters have ventured to use and they've seen them work adequately. The client's first shot being put in the vitals are the most important, which is why they put such a high effort in getting within 200 yards.

 

[wyosam]

Every time I read threads like this I just can't believe that people think monos kill better, arrows do more damage, match bullets blow up on shoulders, other rumors etc.... it's wild to discuss/argue week in and week out.

Pick any animal, shoot a heavy for caliber polymer tipped match bullet or a berger type variant with enough impact velocity and see what happens. Purposely aim for the shoulder if you want, it will make the damage caused much worse. A buddy of mine just shot an aggressive highland bull with a 223 and a tmk cause he was on the fence about them. Absolutely devastating, Like it is with every other animal 1800lbs and under.

I don’t see “monos kill better” very often. I think for most in mono camp, they use them because they are either required to, or because they want to. “Kill better” arguments don’t make much sense anyway. Just about anything placed well kills effectively. Increasing the size of the wound channel gives a little more wiggle room (note I said wound channel and not bore diameter).


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[jpengel]

Looking up bison draw tags and found this little tidbit …

 

[z987k]

Looking up bison draw tags and found this little tidbit …

View attachment 772575

That's been the case forever. It's the only rifle restriction Alaska has and might as well read at least 30-06 for bison.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

My buddy found out a spear at 120 fps works fine on Musk Ox. Kinda silly for Bison to have that, but all it takes is someone to get a proposal through that just becomes gospel to ADF&G after a while.

 

[Taudisio]

My buddy found out a spear at 120 fps works fine on Musk Ox. Kinda silly for Bison to have that, but all it takes is someone to get a proposal through that just becomes gospel to ADF&G after a while.
View attachment 772603

This is awesome, one question. How did he get that spear going almost 82mph?

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

This is awesome, one question. How did he get that spear going almost 82mph?

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[amassi]

This is awesome, one question. How did he get that spear going almost 82mph?

Tren
Jkjkjk


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[B_Reynolds_AK]

Ok maybe not 120 fps, but fast enough

 

[Taudisio]

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Well that was awesome. Thanks for sharing.

 

[cowdisciple]

The obvious better answer here is to ban FMJ bullets for hunting. .223 is not the problem (see bajillion page thread). Cheap 55gr FMJ projectiles are not great. If you MUST regulate something, that's the thing to regulate.

Unless you can figure out how to mandate a shooting proficiency test (I had to put 4 out of 5 muzzleloader rounds in an 8" inch circle at 50 yards in front of an ADFG rep to put in for muzzleloader tags, which seems reasonable? At least, the proficiency standard is reasonable. Wasn't easy to set up the test in SEAK.) And yes, that muzzleloader killed a moose just fine.

A scoped .223 with any reasonable hunting bullet is definitely more lethal than a muzzleloader with iron sights.

 

[cowdisciple]

Of course, if you really want to reduce wounding and loss of animals through regulatory action you'd want some kind of State mandated proficiency test and certification for anyone to shoot anything past, say, 300 yards? Even 300 might be too far.

What percentage of guys shooting their 300 win mags at animals past that range have any business doing so? Much bigger problem than .223 IMO. If you can't put 4 out of 5 in an 8" circle at range x, you shouldn't be shooting at range x regardless of the performance of the bullet.

 

[z987k]

Of course, if you really want to reduce wounding and loss of animals through regulatory action you'd want some kind of State mandated proficiency test and certification for anyone to shoot anything past, say, 300 yards? Even 300 might be too far.

What percentage of guys shooting their 300 win mags at animals past that range have any business doing so? Much bigger problem than .223 IMO. If you can't put 4 out of 5 in an 8" circle at range x, you shouldn't be shooting at range x regardless of the performance of the bullet.

Spend an afternoon at rabbit creek and you'd bring that inside 100 yards. Pie plate accuracy is the norm.
Put 5 in rapid succession anywhere on your 24x24 target out there at 100 and send it.

 

[wyosam]

Spend an afternoon at rabbit creek and you'd bring that inside 100 yards. Pie plate accuracy is the norm.
Put 5 in rapid succession anywhere on your 24x24 target out there at 100 and send it.

And pie plate 3/5 times is a “tack driver”. It’s fun watching people move their finger back and forth bullet hole to bullet hole across a giant target going “every one of those is a dead moose!” I especially like it when they are “adjusting their zero” during all this.


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[Bowfinn]

Spend an afternoon at rabbit creek and you'd bring that inside 100 yards. Pie plate accuracy is the norm.
Put 5 in rapid succession anywhere on your 24x24 target out there at 100 and send it.

This is true year round, but especially in August when a lot of magnums get dusted off for the year. I’d be curious what the average group size would be if everyone had to shoot a 10 round group.

 

[TREE ‘EM]

I see a lot of people on here who seem to be confusing shot placement, with killing power.

You can’t regulate shot placement and a poorly placed shot from a 458 Lott is just as ineffective as a poorly placed shot from a .22LR.

Before you go jumping on me about bringing up a .22LR, know that I’ve culled 300+ deer with one. I’ve also helped track a moose for a few miles which was shot with a 458 Lott.

I know a family who shares a .22 Hornet to subsistence hunt with. The old man bought it along with a Lee loading tool, because it was the cheapest way he could find to do what he needed to.

 

[wyosam]

The obvious better answer here is to ban FMJ bullets for hunting. .223 is not the problem (see bajillion page thread). Cheap 55gr FMJ projectiles are not great. If you MUST regulate something, that's the thing to regulate.

Unless you can figure out how to mandate a shooting proficiency test (I had to put 4 out of 5 muzzleloader rounds in an 8" inch circle at 50 yards in front of an ADFG rep to put in for muzzleloader tags, which seems reasonable? At least, the proficiency standard is reasonable. Wasn't easy to set up the test in SEAK.) And yes, that muzzleloader killed a moose just fine.

A scoped .223 with any reasonable hunting bullet is definitely more lethal than a muzzleloader with iron sights.

I don’t know about more lethal. It more circumstances and from further away (and with much less skill/effort), sure. But when used at reasonable distance, I’ve found my muzzleloader to hit elk much like a garbage truck, without much potential for “more lethal”.


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