6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

[Harvey_NW]

Welcome to Rokslide, where guys who shoot a lot and actually punch tags argue 223 vs Fudds with their 300 WM (or some other magnum) over and over.

Fixed it

 

[JGRaider]

Where do the "fudds" with 7mm08's, 6.5CM's etc fit in?

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

Does anybody have experience with the ABLR's at extended distances? I only have experience with them under 200 yards so far, where they worked well. I'm guessing they act more traditionally wound wise once they are slowed down some?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Wounds will get smaller as the impact velocity goes down.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Here's an interesting bit of info regarding Barnes Match Burner 140's.

A buddy just killed an 11 year old ram here in Alaska with a 20" 6.5 CM.
He used the MB 140 factory ammo.
Muzzle Velocity appx. 2580 fps.

1st shot at 278 yards. Lungs. Ram started running towards him.
2nd shot at 203 yards. Lungs again. Ram ran closer.

Before 3rd shot was taken, he saw blood pouring out and decided to not shoot again.
Ram continued running downhill a couple hundred yards before expiring.

On the autopsy, he found that the exits wounds were only twice caliber size, ie. next to no expansion.
1st impact would have been at appx. 2250fps and second at 2350 fps.

Apparently the 140 variant of the Match Burner did not work as expected at those impact velocities.

My deer a few weeks ago on the other hand had a softball size exit out the off side at appx. 2400 fps.

 

[SouthPaw]

Here's an interesting bit of info regarding Barnes Match Burner 140's.

A buddy just killed an 11 year old ram here in Alaska with a 20" 6.5 CM.
He used the MB 140 factory ammo.
Muzzle Velocity appx. 2580 fps.

1st shot at 278 yards. Lungs. Ram started running towards him.
2nd shot at 203 yards. Lungs again. Ram ran closer.

Before 3rd shot was taken, he saw blood pouring out and decided to not shoot again.
Ram continued running downhill a couple hundred yards before expiring.

On the autopsy, he found that the exits wounds were only twice caliber size, ie. next to no expansion.
1st impact would have been at appx. 2500 fps and second at 2300 fps.

Apparently the 140 variant of the Match Burner did not work as expected at those impact velocities.

My deer a few weeks ago on the other hand had a softball size exit out the off side at appx. 2400 fps.

At high impact velocities, the bullet could be rapidly fragmenting the onside and not much bullet left exiting the animal, creating a small exit as the hide stretches. What did the actual vitals wound look like and how far inside the entrance was upset observed?

Also, how could the 2nd shot have lower impact velocities at a closer range? How could the MV be 2580 and impacting at 2500fps 300 yards away? Something doesn't add up here.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

At high impact velocities, the bullet could be rapidly fragmenting the onside and not much bullet left exiting the animal, creating a small exit as the hide stretches. What did the actual vitals wound look like and how far inside the entrance was upset observed?

Also, how could the 2nd shot have lower impact velocities at a closer range? How could the MV be 2580 and impacting at 2500fps 300 yards away? Something doesn't add up here.

I meant impact of 2350 and 2250. It was most definitely not the case of going too fast. They failed to expand properly.

 

[Formidilosus]

I meant impact of 2350 and 2250. It was most definitely not the case of going too fast. They failed to expand properly.

What did the lungs look like?

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

What did the lungs look like?

He said the bullets “penciled” through.
I asked specifically about the lungs and he said he didn’t look with much intent, but that the wound channel was minimal.

Soon after the meat and horns were stolen by a grizzly. He managed to steal the half buried horns back, but the bear was a little ways away, sitting on the game bags.

 

[Formidilosus]

He said the bullets “penciled” through.
I asked specifically about the lungs and he said he didn’t look with much intent, but that the wound channel was minimal.

Soon after the meat and horns were stolen by a grizzly. He managed to steal the half buried horns back, but the bear was a little ways away, sitting on the game bags.

Hmmm. All bullet behave weird at times, but MatchBurners, the 6.5’s specifically are violent- some of the “softest” fragmenting bullets made from what I’ve seen.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Hmmm. All bullet behave weird at times, but MatchBurners, the 6.5’s specifically are violent- some of the “softest” fragmenting bullets made from what I’ve seen.

Yeah, thats why I was so surprised when he told me today. He doesn't quite have the understanding of modern Match bullets and his impression was that they were going too fast, hence the minimal wound channels. I showed him my buck from a few weeks ago at 2,400 fps and the gaping hole in the off side. He was pretty surprised that they were the same bullet, though from different cartridges.

 

[deerhunter628]

Sounds like it may have shedded all of its petals and just the shank exited.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Sounds like it may have shedded all of its petals and just the shank exited.

No petals on a match burner

 

[Castle Rock]

So were the animals dissected and the actual wound channels observed, or was the assumption made that there was little internal damage due to the small exit wounds

 

[deerhunter628]

No petals on a match burner

Ok. I didnt know i had to be so specific with my terms. Maybe the bullet came apart inside to animal and just one piece of it exited.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Negative, on accounts above. No detailed autopsy performed, but he could see the lungs and internals as he field dressed the animal and there was not extensive damage.

The bullet didn’t come apart or shed petals. It would have created far more damage if it had. The ram was on its feet for hundreds of yards after being shot. The bullet did not work as Intended.

Others may have had great experiences with the 140’s, but my friends experience shows that there is still some variability in performance, atleast on that variant of MB.

This is what happens when a MB works as intended. 112g at 2,400 fps on a similarly size animal:

 

[Unckebob]

Negative, on accounts above. No detailed autopsy performed, but he could see the lungs and internals as he field dressed the animal and there was not extensive damage.

The bullet didn’t come apart or shed petals. It would have created far more damage if it had. The ram was on its feet for hundreds of yards after being shot. The bullet did not work as Intended.

Others may have had great experiences with the 140’s, but my friends experience shows that there is still some variability in performance, atleast on that variant of MB.

This is what happens when a MB works as intended. 112g at 2,400 fps on a similarly size animal:

The MB was designed to punch tiny holes in paper.

 

[Castle Rock]

So was the TMK according to Sierra

 

[eoperator]

Here's an interesting bit of info regarding Barnes Match Burner 140's.

Is there much of an air gap between tip and top of lead in the 140mb?

I am becoming more and more of a believer in the otm match bullets yaw and tear off the front ~1\3 of the bullet as form has said many times as opposed to opening from the front. If this is true the more supported the nose of the bullet is by lead the harder it would be to tear off.

Here is 2 front 1/3 portions of 109 berger showing the tip did not open in gel.

 

[Eiden]

Is there much of an air gap between tip and top of lead in the 140mb?

I am becoming more and more of a believer in the otm match bullets yaw and tear off the front ~1\3 of the bullet as form has said many times as opposed to opening from the front. If this is true the more supported the nose of the bullet is by lead the harder it would be to tear off.

Here is 2 front 1/3 portions of 109 berger showing the tip did not open in gel.
View attachment 752518

So did the 109 perform in the gel by tumbling? Or did it not perform at all.


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