6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

[slowelk]

If I'm having to pick one high BC bullet for game in my CM, it's easily going to be a 139 Scenar, followed by 147 ELDM.

Odd to compare those two. 139 Scenar has relatively low bc for a 140 6.5mm bullet, and it doesn't expand like ELDM, TMK, Berger OTM/VLD/etc.

 

[JGRaider]

Odd to compare those two. 139 Scenar has relatively low bc for a 140 6.5mm bullet, and it doesn't expand like ELDM, TMK, Berger OTM/VLD/etc.

You need to find the thread over on 24HCF "Death via Scenar", started by a gov't animal control/guide/hunter up in Montana with hundreds upon hundreds of big game kills under his belt with a 139 Scenar including elk. he works hand in hand with George at GAP and also helped Bushnell develop the Elite LRHS line of scopes years ago. Scenars are a lethal killing machine, tougher than ELDM/Berger,TMK as you say, which is a good thing. Look it up....it will enlighten you. The "relatively low" BC of this scenar is an overlblown nothingburger.

 

[slowelk]

You need to find the thread over on 24HCF "Death via Scenar", started by a gov't animal control/guide/hunter up in Montana with hundreds upon hundreds of big game kills under his belt with a 139 Scenar including elk. he works hand in hand with George at GAP and also helped Bushnell develop the Elite LRHS line of scopes years ago. Scenars are a lethal killing machine, tougher than ELDM/Berger,TMK as you say, which is a good thing. Look it up....it will enlighten you. The "relatively low" BC of this scenar is an overlblown nothingburger.

I’m aware of the thread. I’m just saying the bullets are not comparable. The scenar has a materially higher minimum expansion velocity than the others I mentioned.

 

[flyfisher117]

If you're only going to shoot one bullet with the rifle and don't reload I'd say bulk buy 143gr ELDx and be set, but I reload so I buy the 147gr ELDm factory loaded for steel/targets and then reload it with 130gr TMK for hunting.

I do reload. Just after one projectile that I can afford to practice and hunt with. The rifle will get shot a lot at the range just for giggles and practice so not wanting super expensive or hard to find projectiles.

I’d shoot (and do so) the 130 TMK.

Woops yes meant 130 TMK. I had TGK on the mind because I was talking to someone about it in the Grendel world.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

every hornady bullet has been much easier to find the past 3 years than the 130 tmk.

 

[FB Trout]

every hornady bullet has been much easier to find the past 3 years than the 130 tmk.

That’s true, however, the 130 TMK is currently readily available. One could buy a stockpile to load and shoot for an extended period, if it’s financially feasible and not have worry about running out.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

didn't know that. i stopped looking for 130 tmks after i bought a 2k pack of 140 elds.

 

[FB Trout]

didn't know that. i stopped looking for 130 tmks after i bought a 2k pack of 140 elds.

Most of the bigger online retailers have them in stock, I’ve stocked up on enough to last a long time!

 

[Castle Rock]

You need to find the thread over on 24HCF "Death via Scenar", started by a gov't animal control/guide/hunter up in Montana with hundreds upon hundreds of big game kills under his belt with a 139 Scenar including elk. he works hand in hand with George at GAP and also helped Bushnell develop the Elite LRHS line of scopes years ago. Scenars are a lethal killing machine, tougher than ELDM/Berger,TMK as you say, which is a good thing. Look it up....it will enlighten you. The "relatively low" BC of this scenar is an overlblown nothingburger.

What we were doing back then was a generational step up from corelokts and 3 inches high at a hundred but we have moved the goalposts again

 

[ElPollo]

You need to find the thread over on 24HCF "Death via Scenar", started by a gov't animal control/guide/hunter up in Montana with hundreds upon hundreds of big game kills under his belt with a 139 Scenar including elk. he works hand in hand with George at GAP and also helped Bushnell develop the Elite LRHS line of scopes years ago. Scenars are a lethal killing machine, tougher than ELDM/Berger,TMK as you say, which is a good thing. Look it up....it will enlighten you. The "relatively low" BC of this scenar is an overlblown nothingburger.

You and I have discussed this on here before. I’ve read that thread and tried those bullets on game. The difference between that thread and the 223, 6mm, and 6.5 threads here is the comparison of wound channels here on Rokslide. My experience with the tumble to fragment bullets like the Scenar is that you get a very backloaded wound channel with a very long neck that pencils or tumbles through the front half and fragments through the back half. From my experience, that tends to leave one lung pumping oxygen to the brain for a little longer resulting in animals travelling further before they run out of gas. They kill, but they don’t kill as quickly as the other bullets we are talking about. If deer and elk were 5-6” thicker, or if I were limiting myself to hard quartering away shots where I might have to punch through the rumen, the tumble and fragment-type bullets might be a better choice for me, but that’s not the case.

And while I agree with you that BCs tend to be overblown for most people because most of us don’t or shouldn’t be shooting past 300 yards. For me, out here on the windy prairie, BCs matter more for wind drift than drop. If I have the choice between a low vs high BC bullet, I’m picking the latter because it’s more forgiving for wind calls. That means that, for me, the Scenars would get passed over even if I’m looking for a deeper penetrating bullet in favor of the Bergers or potentially the nose-ringed DTACs. Your calculus may be different and I respect that.

 

[Robobiss]

What are you using to field sharpen the Mora? I just picked one up on this recommendation. What you’re saying about grip makes total sense for hand fatigue when filed dressing.

In the past I have used pull through pocket sharpeners with underwhelming results on cheaper steel. Perhaps I wait to long to sharpen.

I know this is an old comment (and I’m not form) but I’m reading through the thread again. DMT makes great diamond stones. I keep a diafold in my pack “just in case”. in
fine/extra fine. They’re less than 1” wide and 4” or so long. You’d hardly notice it, but you can literally sharpen just about anything with it depending on how creative you want to get. I’ve used mine to sharpen broadheads to great effect.

Again, DMT makes great products, I have one of their big bench stones at the house for sharpening all of my kitchen knives, hunting knives, broadheads, etc. when I am home. I’ve had the same ones for years and used the shit out of them and they seem every bit of the same as they were when I first bought them.


Here’s the folding model best suited for packing.

Diafold® Double-Sided Sharpener - Portable Sharpeners - Sharpeners

www.dmtsharp.com

 

[JGRaider]

You and I have discussed this on here before. I’ve read that thread and tried those bullets on game. The difference between that thread and the 223, 6mm, and 6.5 threads here is the comparison of wound channels here on Rokslide. My experience with the tumble to fragment bullets like the Scenar is that you get a very backloaded wound channel with a very long neck that pencils or tumbles through the front half and fragments through the back half. From my experience, that tends to leave one lung pumping oxygen to the brain for a little longer resulting in animals travelling further before they run out of gas. They kill, but they don’t kill as quickly as the other bullets we are talking about. If deer and elk were 5-6” thicker, or if I were limiting myself to hard quartering away shots where I might have to punch through the rumen, the tumble and fragment-type bullets might be a better choice for me, but that’s not the case.

And while I agree with you that BCs tend to be overblown for most people because most of us don’t or shouldn’t be shooting past 300 yards. For me, out here on the windy prairie, BCs matter more for wind drift than drop. If I have the choice between a low vs high BC bullet, I’m picking the latter because it’s more forgiving for wind calls. That means that, for me, the Scenars would get passed over even if I’m looking for a deeper penetrating bullet in favor of the Bergers or potentially the nose-ringed DTACs. Your calculus may be different and I respect that.

I really don't care about the small details like wound channels, animals traveling, etc. I care about the quarter sized exit holes I consistently get with the scenar at CM speeds. I have never seen the "tumble and fragment" performance you speak of.


I have briefly used the 168 VLDH on seferal whitetails and a bunch of hogs. My experience says you guys can have 'em. Exploding bullets aren't my thing, but granted some have used them successfully.

 

[ElPollo]

Wound channels are what kills animals and a poor wound channel can result in an animal that is wounded and lost. I care about stuff like that. Exits aren’t as important to me if the animal dies quickly within a few yards of where it’s shot.

 

[JGRaider]

You don't say......use good bullets, you don't have to worry about it. If you've killed enough game animals you'll know that you can shoot mule deer for instance, in practically the same place, with an identical bullet, and reactions from the animal may vary. Just the way it is.

 

[ElPollo]

You don't say......use good bullets, you don't have to worry about it. If you've killed enough game animals you'll know that you can shoot mule deer for instance, in practically the same place, with an identical bullet, and reactions from the animal may vary. Just the way it is.

I hear your sarcasm and will counter by saying that I will obviously not be competing with you in the market for Lapua Scenars. If you need to stock up, don’t hold back on my account.

 

[SouthPaw]

6.5CM, 140g ELD-M. Elk, 2291fps impact. Elk traveled 30 yards and went down.

Onside shoulder:




Impacting "heavy bone" stopped nothing.



Shoulder removed, revealing a large entrance hole.




2" section of onside rib was missing. I found bullet and bone fragments in the opposite shoulder, with the front half of vitals heavily damaged. Nothing exited.

 

[MT-nuffgun]

You need to find the thread over on 24HCF "Death via Scenar", started by a gov't animal control/guide/hunter up in Montana with hundreds upon hundreds of big game kills under his belt with a 139 Scenar including elk. he works hand in hand with George at GAP and also helped Bushnell develop the Elite LRHS line of scopes years ago. Scenars are a lethal killing machine, tougher than ELDM/Berger,TMK as you say, which is a good thing. Look it up....it will enlighten you. The "relatively low" BC of this scenar is an overlblown nothingburger.

I believe the guy you are referring to is Pat Sinclair. He used to frequent 24 hour campfire quite a bit, goes by the handle “ScenarShooter”.He has done most of his killing with with a 220 swift and 55 gr hornady sp’s. I’ve read a lot of his old posts on campfire regarding the 220 swift from coyotes to elk, his theory being “from 0-300 yards, just aim at the game”. I believe he is a state trapper out of the Glasgow area. But yea I think he helped develop 6.5 GAP awhile back. Pretty accomplished hunter/trapper and well known throughout Montana.

 

[HighUintas]

Any more animals down with the 140 or 145 match burner?

 

[bojangles808]

We were lucky to help with some management on some private and got a couple around 300 with 147eldms. Estimated impact velocity was 2278.



First deer shot in first video on review probably quartering a little harder than would have liked. My fault for getting impatient this group was going back and forth and there was a bunch of yearlings and amongst the does so was trying to take an older one. Watched her run through the scope and thought she went down when she did the belly roll at the end so decided to take another when more ran back basically to the same spot I shot the first. Second one felt good and didn't go far.

]

After the second one went down @Bc45 @diverc18 were still spotting (and got the video ty) and noticed some ear movement and saw the first one was still alive but bedded facing away. it was a tough shot with the angle and how she was facing, only neck and head were visible with body blocked by rocks. but I knew it would be very hard to get a shot if I walked up because the terrain is so loud. I maneuvered a little bit from where we were positioned to try and get a better angle and a little more body but I missed on my first attempt. The splash at least got her to stand and that was much more straight forward. Video from second back up attempt.

First dead deer (second video shot in first video) entry and exit.




Second deer exit I think from follow up



They were dead within maybe 10 yards of each other and I don't think went further than 20 yards from where both were initially shot. 7th animal shot (5deer 2goats) with 73 140 and 147 eldm match bullets in 223 and 6.5cm and they all haven't gone far, (dead within 40 yds ) kind of reminds me of an expandable broad head with lots of destruction and blood. if they arent dead right away they'll be close or anchored for a follow up. Pretty happy so far since switching to match bullets.

 

[rackcity24]

6.5 cm 130 berger AR hybrid otm
1st. 262 yards
2nd. 75 yards
3rd. 220 yards
All pass throughs

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