6.5 creed magnum

[The Guide]

even better with a glass of wine.

It's almost like "bmxer" is back...

 

[R@crx37372]

A quick search led me to believe some here may not be familiar:

Meanwhile the rec room is getting wrecked with facts. Almost like its filled with emotional opinionated woke trans women

 

[ianpadron]

My main takeaway from this thread is that most Roksliders never took Physics 101.

 

[JohnJohnson]

My main takeaway from this thread is that most Roksliders never took Physics 101.

Unfortunately people having taken intro classes (like 10+ years ago) is a problem too.

"It's basic geometry!" - People saying higher scope mounts noticeably increase the affects of scope cant (it's not geometry at all)

"Drop-test's sample size is too low!" - People who took Intro to Statistics and don't know how anything works

"Equal and opposite reaction!" - People who took Physics 101 and don't understand how this stuff works either

 

[The Guide]

My main takeaway from this thread is that most Roksliders never took Physics 101.

My favorite part of PH101 was trajectory and figuring out why uphill/downhill shots have different shoot to distances even though you have a correct line of sight distance.

301 was kind of out in the weeds for me when it came to acoustic physics but it did show me about how gun shots travel through materials and really made me carry earplugs as an EDC item.

Jay

 

[omicron1792]

Meanwhile the rec room is getting wrecked with facts. Almost like its filled with emotional opinionated woke trans women

I’m not sure you have said one fact yet. Truly.

Bunch of anecdotes about fishing and meth hookers is all I see.

 

[WCB]

Again with the lack of reading comprehension and misstating what I said. Nowhere did I say that those energies are a requirement but you continueto do that because you cant counter the informationwith fact. Those are the well known recommended energies by multiple sources. You have yet to produce any for the contrary. If what you're doing works stick with it, but in my opinion your living in a very small operational windows with those choices. Why restrict yourself to shorter ranges and limited shot angles when there are more capable options?

OK...bullet construction. Ready GO!

 

[The Guide]

I’m not sure you have said one fact yet. Truly.

Bunch of anecdotes about fishing and meth hookers is all I see.

What I have found is that those with very little experience are the most vocal. Once you actually get into double digits kills on an animal and if you are actually breaking them down yourself (from kill site to kitchen) you find there is nothing mythical or extra special about any animal. None of them have "inch thick rut hardened hides" or "shoulders that deflect all but the toughest bullets". Just a sack of meat with some bones in it. Hardest part of killing an elk is finding it. The killing is easy. Put an expanding bullet in the vitals.

Jay

 

[Dan Carey]

My favorite part of PH101 was trajectory and figuring out why uphill/downhill shots have different shoot to distances even though you have a correct line of sight distance.

301 was kind of out in the weeds for me when it came to acoustic physics but it did show me about how gun shots travel through materials and really made me carry earplugs as an EDC item.

Jay

Up and down angles, what about east and west on those long shots.

 

[The Guide]

Up and down angles, what about east and west on those long shots.

That's all part of the equation since nothing is shot in way that drift (spin and wind) can't be factored. Even the direction the shot is fired in reliation to the earth's rotation is a factor but not really relevant to the distances game is generally shot at.

Jay

 

[R@crx37372]

OK...bullet construction. Ready GO!

Depends on what you're trying to do as far as bullet construction bullet. Lol. Open country and long range cup and core/match bullets. Heavy timber or somewhere that you're likely to take a quick shot at non optimal angles I'd say bonded or copper would be a better choice. I use both depending on the situation.

What I have found is that those with very little experience are the most vocal. Once you actually get into double digits kills on an animal and if you are actually breaking them down yourself (from kill site to kitchen) you find there is nothing mythical or extra special about any animal. None of them have "inch thick rut hardened hides" or "shoulders that deflect all but the toughest bullets". Just a sack of meat with some bones in it. Hardest part of killing an elk is finding it. The killing is easy. Put an expanding bullet in the vitals.

Jay

Putting an expanding bullet in the vitals isn't always that easy if its moving, variable winds or giving you bad angles for example. Hence needing enough energy to penetrate, expand and get to the vitals. There isnt always a perfectly stable rest or position for you to make a perfect shot from. Or, you may be hunting an area with other hunters nearby or where you dont have access to.
As an example hog hunting in Texas you can get away with a smaller caliber with lower energy because its fairly open and easy to track. In south carolina or Florida swamps, you better drop it where it stands or you won't recover it. One of the groups I hunt with has 8 hunters typically. Four of them used 223s none recoverd a hog. Meanwhile the other for using 308s or 6.8 spc all shot and recovered thoer hogs. Now the four previously using 223s all have brand new 6.8s and the difference in effect and wounding on hogs between them is dramatic. Now this may lean somewhat to your side of the argument. But the 6.8s seem to outperform the 308s with less energy using SSTs (130 ttsx is a different story). I personally shot multiple hogs multiple times with the 308 and 150 ssts, and every one of them ran and took multiple shots at fairly close range (less than 50 yards) My son was using his 6.8 and every hog folded immediately, then I used the 6.8 with the same effect. The 6.8 dropped two huge hogs (342lb& 390lb) in thier tracks with the exact same shot placement that the 308 didn't drop 200-250lb hogs. Possible bullet failure from too much energy and velocity? results vary sometimes in the real world....

 

[nm.otter]

Putting an expanding bullet in the vitals isn't always that easy if its moving, variable winds or giving you bad angles for example. Hence needing enough energy to penetrate, expand and get to the vitals.

Kinetic energy is irrelevant here. A tungsten slug has craploads of KE, but will pencil right through a critter.

How much KE does an arrow have?

 

[R@crx37372]

Kinetic energy is irrelevant here. A tungsten slug has craploads of KE, but will pencil through the critter.

How much KE does an arrow have?

I wouldnt irrelevant, its just one of a number of variables, and not the end all be all. A bullet needs energy and velocity for penetration and expansion, as well as hydrostatic and hydraulic shock. More energy typically means more of all of that with the same projectile, although too much will causes bullet failure. An arrow kills by less mechanisms that dont rely on velocity, as does a knife or spear so thats not a fair comparison.

 

[The Guide]

Putting an expanding bullet in the vitals isn't always that easy if its moving, variable winds or giving you bad angles for example. Hence needing enough energy to penetrate, expand and get to the vitals. There isnt always a perfectly stable rest or position for you to make a perfect shot from. Or, you may be hunting an area with other hunters nearby or where you dont have access to.

I've never been "required" to pull the trigger on a game animal I was hunting for pleasure. If the shot isn't right, don't take the shot.

When I'm doing predator control, game damage hunts, or culling and have to put animals on the ground I don't change anything other than having higher capacity magazines available for the firearm I'm using. The only thing I change is I put more bullets into animals. Shoot them standing, shoot them running, shoot them on the ground, keep shooting. It doesn't matter if I'm using an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine or a bolt action with a 10 round magazine, keep bullets flying until they quit moving. Too many people shoot and stop and look to see what happen. Often times this is due to a large cartridge being used and having recoil take them out of the shot. Dazed and confused from the recoil the look up to see if they "got it"... If you aren't getting beat up by by the recoil, you can stay in the scope and continue to shoot. Stop being the guy who tries to have the one shot kill when it makes you the guy who shot once and didn't get your game because you only wounded it or you missed.

Jay

 

[The Guide]

as well as hydrostatic and hydraulic shock

Neither of those are how a bullet create a wounds. Those are magazine article descriptions of what bullets do in flesh. There is no "shock" outside of the temporary and permanent wound cavity.

Jay

 

[TheGDog]

Thinking about 30 herret vs 30-30 here. Similar ballistics but smaller case and faster powders in the herret.

Hrmmm... got me wondering, with this sentence, what kind of performance gains they could squeeze out of a .30-30 by making use of the +PEAK?

 

[R@crx37372]

Neither of those are how a bullet create a wounds. Those are magazine article descriptions of what bullets do in flesh. There is no "shock" outside of the temporary and permanent wound cavity.

Jay

Come on Jay....Hydraulic shock is literally the temporary wound cavity. Its the hydraulic pressure wave creating the temporary opening. Otherwise it would only be the diameter of the bullet. I know you're not that unintelligent. Here are more scientific studies and facts on the subject, proving you wrong again... https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA526059.pdf

 

[R@crx37372]

The old spray and pray, fire for effect model huh? I guess that works. I have a buddy that uses that method duck hunting, he doesn't even aim till the third shot empties his gun every time. And usually gets one on the third shot. Kind of an expensive hobby with 10 gauge tungsten

 

[HandgunHTR]

Meanwhile the rec room is getting wrecked with facts. Almost like its filled with emotional opinionated woke trans women.

Exactly what “facts” have you offered to this thread? Your continued spouting of energy numbers that were made up by guys who were gifted guided elk hunts once a year so that the ranch, rifle maker, and bullet maker could get some print coverage? Where do that number actually come from? What is its source? You continue to say, “generally accepted” and other such, but nobody can point to actual scientific studies to justify. The earth being flat was “generally accepted” until someone took the time to do the research and show the truth.
So, Mr. Facts, how much energy is actually required to push an expanding bullet 12-18” through elk skin, muscle, and bone? How would you go about proving that?

An arrow kills by less mechanisms that dont rely on velocity, as does a knife or spear so thats not a fair comparison.

Arrows, bullets, spears, sticks, antlers, etc, all kill the same way. By causing damage to vitals by puncturing or severing, thereby limiting the bodies ability to provide oxygen to the brain. If you are looking for a fact, there is one for you.

Also, if arrows don’t rely on velocity, why are bow guys so keen on chasing it?

 

[R@crx37372]

Exactly what “facts” have you offered to this thread? Your continued spouting of energy numbers that were made up by guys who were gifted guided elk hunts once a year so that the ranch, rifle maker, and bullet maker could get some print coverage? Where do that number actually come from? What is its source? You continue to say, “generally accepted” and other such, but nobody can point to actual scientific studies to justify. The earth being flat was “generally accepted” until someone took the time to do the research and show the truth.
So, Mr. Facts, how much energy is actually required to push an expanding bullet 12-18” through elk skin, muscle, and bone? How would you go about proving that?


Arrows, bullets, spears, sticks, antlers, etc, all kill the same way. By causing damage to vitals by puncturing or severing, thereby limiting the bodies ability to provide oxygen to the brain. If you are looking for a fact, there is one for you.

Also, if arrows don’t rely on velocity, why are bow guys so keen on chasing it?

Bla bla bla, i guess you have a reading comprehension deficit as well. The link i just sent states multiple scientific studies on hydraulic and hydrostatic shock. Actual peer reviewed studies.
Arrows spears and knives do not cause either of those nor a secondary wound cavity. So you're wrong. Guys are keen on chasing velocity because it extends range and minimizes wind drift and other variables, not because it increases wounding with an arrow. With an arrow there's zero difference in the wound it creates whether its going 10 feet per second, or 400 feet per second. Arrows and spears dont drop animals in thier tracks unless they hit the brain or spine, because they dont produce hydraulic shock. So you're wrong on those points. However I agreed that lack of oxygen due to wounding is what kills.
How do you go about proving penetration ability? By using a consisting media similar to tissue, like ballistics gel with bone and hide on it. Theres plenty of scientifice and engineering studies out there showing exactly what ive said. Guessing you have never seen that testing or data yourself? Or you believe Billy Bob's claims of killing elk at 500yards with a 22 lr?
Other testing also done by shooting animals, typically goats or pigs and dissecting the bullet path. Terminal ballistics research site has plenty data directly from goat culling. The fbi and department of defense also have testing data using pigs and goats, before transitioning to ballistics gel. Plenty of data and facts out there, which I've quoted. Sorry they dont support your opinion.