6.5 C or 308?

[Marbles]

6.5 CM 2000-2500 rounds, same source puts 308 at 5000-8000 rounds. https://dmr-llc.com/?p=246

Can't find a reliable'ish source for 7-08, but guess it will fall between the two.

Surprisingly, while very minimal, the 7-08 using Hornady Precision Hunter has a MPBR of 320 meters using the criteria outlined earlier, so it can ballistically outperform a 6.5 CM. Though, 10 meters is to small for me to call it a clear advantage.

Continuing to use Hornady Precision Hunter and assuming factory spec MV.

If minimum expansion velocity is 1800, the 7-08 has an effective range of 640 meters with dialing 3.8 mil. The 6.5 CM of 570 meters with dialing 3.2 mil, and the 308 of 510 meters with dialing 2.7 mil, pretty clear the 308 is bottom of that pile.

At 510 meters the 6.5 dials 2.4 mil and the 7-08 dials 2.2 mil.

Pretty clear that ballistically the 7-08 wins, at least using the assumptions of these figures.

6.5 CM gives 15.32 ft.lb recoil.
7-08 gives 16.9.
308 gives 18.4

Powder charge was estimated using Vihatavuori load data for calculating recoil.

 

[BCD]

@BCD How many rounds a year will you realistically shoot out of this rifle that barrel life is a concern? How many rounds out of all rifles did you shoot this year so far?

As an aside, if you train that much that barrel life is a concern, you should have a second rifle that is exceptionally cheap to shoot to do it with. cough*223*cough.

Yes I have a 223 for practice. I don't go west often but the last time I did I shot nearly 500 rounds practicing with my 300 WSM over about a 6 month period.

 

[Marshfly]

Yes I have a 223 for practice. I don't go west often but the last time I did I shot nearly 500 rounds practicing with my 300 WSM over about a 6 month period.

IMHO that’s not enough to make a barrel life choice between a 7mm08 and a 6.5. 10x the shots of most hunters but still a long time in years. Barrels are not lifetime once you actually start training. Took me a while to get my head around that.


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[ScreamingPotato]

You guys must be rich to be considering barrel life. lol

 

[Marshfly]

Had a buddy miss an elk at 270 on opening day. You know what he does? Worries about ammo cost all the time.


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[ScreamingPotato]

I hear you, practice is important. But 3k rounds in a hunting rifle is a lot, shooting the cheap stuff that's still roughly $6,500 in ammo.

 

[Marshfly]

I hear you, practice is important. But 3k rounds in a hunting rifle is a lot, shooting the cheap stuff that's still roughly $6,500 in ammo.

3k in ELD 6.5 is about $5k. But I get you. 500 rounds a year is only maybe $800ish. Way cheaper than a blown western hunt.

This guy is one of those box a year guys. Cost him a bull.


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[Hnthrdr]

Those are two of my favorites for a bunch of reasons.

Or we can sit around the campfire and have a nice FUDDLORE chat. We can talk about how you can only kill an elk with a .300 winny or .338 lapoo… or how bullets don’t matter and only energy down range kills things, and that anyone that shoots lighter recoiling calibers drinks bud light and wears skinny jeans, and then we can have a good laugh and then go get in our fart sacks and sleep past shooting light

 

[RyanT26]

I have both. I would go with the 6.5 CM. I agree with others as well. If you can get your hands on a 6 Creedmoor do so. I had an older 308 rebarreled to that and absolutely love it.
I find barrel life a silly thing to worry about unless you’re getting into 28 nosler or something like that.
If you can afford to shoot out a Creedmoor barrel, you can afford to put a new one on.

 

[Happy Antelope]

I just spend several days at a lodge where they shot 6.5 for a precision shooting class all day. We shot 5 cow elk over 2 days, 4 with a 6.5 and one with a 28 Nosler. According to the these guys who have seen hundreds or even thousands of elk killed, a lot with the 6.5, and what we witnessed I am now a firm believer the 6.5 is seriously under gunned for elk out past a few hundred yards. They all said they have seen a lot of elk die very badly with a 6.5. One of the hunters at 550 yards put 3 rounds right though the lungs and that elk did not flinch and did not want to fall. Finally after a 4th shot it went down. Not saying it would not kill it, of course it did and will, just saying it by no means knocked that elk off it's feet. Every guide said they cringe when the guests want to use the same 6.5 they used on the range. I won't do it ever again, no desire to track an elk even 50 yards when a big caliber will knock it down even with a misplaced shot. I would not want a 6.5 in my hands for an elk of a lifetime. The 28 Nosler killed the elk instantly at 600 yards, even though the 6.5 was better placed.

 

[Marshfly]

Bullet choice matters


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[amassi]

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[BCD]

IMHO that’s not enough to make a barrel life choice between a 7mm08 and a 6.5. 10x the shots of most hunters but still a long time in years. Barrels are not lifetime once you actually start training. Took me a while to get my head around that.


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The only advantage I see that the 6.5 has over the 708 is ammo availability which I am not overly concerned about as I tend to buy large quantities of ammo online once I find the bullet the rifle likes.

 

[Marshfly]

The only advantage I see that the 6.5 has over the 708 is ammo availability which I am not overly concerned about as I tend to buy large quantities of ammo online once I find the bullet the rifle likes.

The other big advantage, and this isn't small in my opinion, is that the 6.5 Creedmoor and PRC cartridges are designed with significantly closer tolerances in SAAMI specs. This makes for a cartridge that is much less picky on ammo and bullet than older cartridges and makes for an inherently more accurate rifle across a wider array of bullet choices.

To put it simply, a certain 7mm08 barrel might shoot an ELD-x well or it might not. It might only shoot a TSX well. You just don't know. A 6.5CM barrel has a significantly higher likelihood of shooting everything well.
This is exactly why my 270 is getting rebarreled to a 6.5RC after the season. It will only shoot 130gr TSX and TTSX. It will not shoot heavier ammo well. I see 3" 10 shot groups with ELDX. Totally unacceptable so I have to shoot TTSX and just deal with the lower performance.

 

[RyanT26]

I just spend several days at a lodge where they shot 6.5 for a precision shooting class all day. We shot 5 cow elk over 2 days, 4 with a 6.5 and one with a 28 Nosler. According to the these guys who have seen hundreds or even thousands of elk killed, a lot with the 6.5, and what we witnessed I am now a firm believer the 6.5 is seriously under gunned for elk out past a few hundred yards. They all said they have seen a lot of elk die very badly with a 6.5. One of the hunters at 550 yards put 3 rounds right though the lungs and that elk did not flinch and did not want to fall. Finally after a 4th shot it went down. Not saying it would not kill it, of course it did and will, just saying it by no means knocked that elk off it's feet. Every guide said they cringe when the guests want to use the same 6.5 they used on the range. I won't do it ever again, no desire to track an elk even 50 yards when a big caliber will knock it down even with a misplaced shot. I would not want a 6.5 in my hands for an elk of a lifetime. The 28 Nosler killed the elk instantly at 600 yards, even though the 6.5 was better placed.

My God, where to even start.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous and ignorant statements I’ve ever read anywhere
“no desire to track an elk even 50 yards when a big caliber will knock it down even with a misplaced shot.”.

Unless you’re sure shooting some type of field artillery, there’s not a bullet that’s going to be launched out of a centerfire rifle that is going to knock an elk down unless you shoot it in the brain or spinal column.
Fuddlore will never die.

 

[Marshfly]

My God, where to even start.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous and ignorant statements I’ve ever read anywhere
“no desire to track an elk even 50 yards when a big caliber will knock it down even with a misplaced shot.”.

Unless you’re sure shooting some type of field artillery, there’s not a bullet that’s going to be launched out of a centerfire rifle that is going to knock an elk down unless you shoot it in the brain or spinal column.
Fuddlore will never die.

Yeah. I would bet more crappy tracking jobs on elk start with a 300 win mag than any other caliber.

 

[KenLee]

I set up a Tikka 6.5cm for my son this fall. Easy 0.7 inch 10 shot group with ELDX. A buddy was with us and wanted me to sight in his CVA 308 with a Leupold VX3. I did but after watching how well the Tikka/Trijicon Credo combo performed, shooting it himself, and seeing the difference in the scope, he sold it that week and put together the exact same rifle as I built for my son. Result? 0.8 10 shot group with ELDX.

It’s just easy, reliable, and it kills stuff. You have to really hate the creedmore to choose a 7mm08 or 308 over it today.


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I don't hate the 6.5 Creedmoor, but if not wanting to tote a thumper, I pick a 7mm-08 over Creedmoor 90% of the time...and I have a nicer 6.5 rig than any of my 7mm-08s. From the performance I've actually seen, I prefer the 08. Lady friend does use a Creedmoor with Trijicon scope, as I bought it in pink camo so she can find it easier in the safe . Couldn't find a deal on a pink 7mm-08.

 

[RyanT26]

Yeah. I would bet more crappy tracking jobs on elk start with a 300 win mag than any other caliber.

No way man. I don’t believe it. You can Texas heart shoot an elk with a 28 Nosler and it will literally blow end over end. DRT!

Gut shoot an elk with a 28 Nosler dead where it stands. DRT.
Hell, sometimes you don’t even have to hit them with that 28 Nosler. You just close enough to an elk and that dang ole bullet displaces enough air that elk will die from lack of oxygen DRT of course.

 

[pirogue]

6.5 is very popular among the ladies.

 

[Marshfly]

I don't hate the 6.5 Creedmoor, but if not wanting to tote a thumper, I pick a 7mm-08 over Creedmoor 90% of the time...and I have a nicer 6.5 rig than any of my 7mm-08s. From the performance I've actually seen, I prefer the 08. Lady friend does use a Creedmoor with Trijicon scope, as I bought it in pink camo so she can find it easier in the safe . Couldn't find a deal on a pink 7mm-08.

What specifically does that 0.02" additional bullet diameter give you?

That's the thickness of a fingernail.