6.5 C or 308?

[jimh406]

The popularity of the creedmoor is obvious in all three lists.

I don't think hunting and amount of ammo are related. People who love target shooting and practicing shoot multiple boxes in a weekend. On the other hand, some of us take several seasons to empty one box hunting and checking zero and making one shot kills every year.

But, there are also new guns vs existing. Not everyone buys a new caliber for hunting just because a new one is made. The .308 has multiple decades head start in the hunting field.

There is no doubt that many new guns are bought with new calibers, but that doesn't make all of the existing guns disappear. On a site like this one, the newer calibers would obviously be more popular to go along with newer model guns since those are the ones with the most buzz. That's not good or bad, but gives the visitors of sites a false sense of popularity.

 

[Marbles]

You’re right - these two cartridges are identical - what a dumb comment I made - I should be more sensitive to 308 shooters.

I have both and you’ll never see me pick the 308 over the 6.5 as an antelope and mule deer cartridge - I’m dumb that way.

If you read your earlier post, it reads like you think people who choose a 308 are dumb. That is why you got pushback.

The 6.5 is the better choice in my opinion, but it does not eliminate the need to dial or use hold overs nor does it extend MPBR. Your stated reason is ignorant.

On trajectory alone I’d say the Creedmoor wins hands down. The idea that every shot can be dialed isn’t realistic - western cartridges have to be flat shooting, or you’ll miss shots at deer and antelope that aren’t just standing around like a marketing ad for whatever ballistic calculator is hot this year.

Using Hornady Precision Hunter ammunition and assuming factory MV and defining MPBR as being able to aim at the center of a 12 inch circle and keep all rounds inside it at any range between MPBR and the muzzle.

308 178 gr ELD-X with MV of 2600 fps
-Zero can be set at 250 meters for a MPBR of 310 meters

6.5 CM 143 gr ELD-X at 2700 fps MV
-Zero can be set at 250 meters (a 275 meter zero results in being more than 6 inches above point of aim between 150 an 190 meters) with a MPBR of 310 meters (320 meters is more than 6 inches below POA).

Conclusions were arrived at using Applied Ballistics because math is more accurate than Jack O'Connor.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I did remember 3 other Wyoming friends with 308s, and there are probably more, but they don’t come out very often. One of the reasons they don’t bring out their 308s is everyone has a variety of rifles - if a 223, 22-250, 243, 6 creed, 6.5 creed, 6.5 prc, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 270, 7mm-08, 7 short mag, 7 normal mag, 7 ultra mag, 270 Weatherby, 6.8 Astro-blaster, 6.8 Critter-Gitter, 30-06, 308, 300 little mag, 300 monster mag, 338, 35 Whelen, and 30-30 are in the safe, and it’s antelope season, one rifle will come out. During deer season another, and a third will probably be used on elk.

I had no idea the 308 crowd is sensitive about that caliber - I should be more gentle in voicing my opinion. As long as the bullet hits home, the animal won’t care one way or the other.

I don’t own a 308 or a 6.5 CM. I am just a nerd who likes to play with ballistics software and understands that bullet selection is more important than cartridge.

 

[TaperPin]

I don’t own a 308 or a 6.5 CM. I am just a nerd who likes to play with ballistics software and understands that bullet selection is more important than cartridge.

Either one is great - can’t go wrong either way.

 

[Dobermann]

Wouldn't the 308 with heavier bullets leave more room for error on a marginal hit?

Have you got to read through the 223 and 6.5 threads on here yet?

Might also be worth listening to the last handful of Shoot2Hunt podcasts.

 

[Montana Slim]

If I‘m wrong on anything, it doesn’t take much to change my mind, but there has to be evidence. I will be on the lookout for the large amount of 308 deer and antelope rifles that I’ve been overlooking at the range, in the field and in the gun stores for the past 40 years. So far they just haven’t shown up - I’m not emotionally attached to them one way or the other.

edit: It’s really hard to find cartridge popularity sorted by state, but there are some national ranking based on numbers sold. The caliber listed by the largest number of companies is the 308, and it’s ammo sales are way up there. The popularity of the creedmoor is obvious in all three lists.

If you read your earlier post, it reads like you think people who choose a 308 are dumb. That is why you got pushback.

The 6.5 is the better choice in my opinion, but it does not eliminate the need to dial or use hold overs nor does it extend MPBR. Your stated reason is ignorant.


Using Hornady Precision Hunter ammunition and assuming factory MV and defining MPBR as being able to aim at the center of a 12 inch circle and keep all rounds inside it at any range between MPBR and the muzzle.

308 178 gr ELD-X with MV of 2600 fps
-Zero can be set at 250 meters for a MPBR of 310 meters

6.5 CM 143 gr ELD-X at 2700 fps MV
-Zero can be set at 250 meters (a 275 meter zero results in being more than 6 inches above point of aim between 150 an 190 meters) with a MPBR of 310 meters (320 meters is more than 6 inches below POA).

Conclusions were arrived at using Applied Ballistics because math is more accurate than Jack O'Connor.

Looking at those tables you would think there aren't any .270s out in 'the west'... Jack would be disappointed

 

[Castle Rock]

Wouldn't the 308 with heavier bullets leave more room for error on a marginal hit?

No, what would make you think that?

 

[jimh406]

No, what would make you think that?

Do more research if it isn't obvious.

 

[fwafwow]

 

[KHNC]

Only way i would choose a 6.5CM over a .308 is if i was actually going to wear the free Flat Bill that comes with the CM.

 

[wind gypsy]

The idea of extra punch is in your head, you don’t need it. Go read the 77 grain TMK .223 thread.

I would choose a 6 creedmoor in your shoes.

This.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Only way i would choose a 6.5CM over a .308 is if i was actually going to wear the free Flat Bill that comes with the CM.

Creedmoor jokes are so ~2018.

 

[TaperPin]

Looking at those tables you would think there aren't any .270s out in 'the west'... Jack would be disappointed

I agree. There are a ton of 270s out west. Lol
Everyone’s grandpa and dad are shooting 270s and 7 mags, and the kids all want the 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5 prc

 

[JohnJohnson]

Creedmoor jokes are so ~2018.

I don't SAG MY PANTS or wear flatbrim hats like all the young people do and that means I don't shoot 6.5 either. I also don't use sissy sticks to hike and I shoot my 5 pound .300 WM without a suppressor or brake because I'm not AFRAID of recoil. Being a contrarian about popular things makes me COOL and my opinions/choices make me more MANLY than you.

 

[TaperPin]

If you read your earlier post, it reads like you think people who choose a 308 are dumb. That is why you got pushback.

The 6.5 is the better choice in my opinion, but it does not eliminate the need to dial or use hold overs nor does it extend MPBR. Your stated reason is ignorant.


Using Hornady Precision Hunter ammunition and assuming factory MV and defining MPBR as being able to aim at the center of a 12 inch circle and keep all rounds inside it at any range between MPBR and the muzzle.

308 178 gr ELD-X with MV of 2600 fps
-Zero can be set at 250 meters for a MPBR of 310 meters

6.5 CM 143 gr ELD-X at 2700 fps MV
-Zero can be set at 250 meters (a 275 meter zero results in being more than 6 inches above point of aim between 150 an 190 meters) with a MPBR of 310 meters (320 meters is more than 6 inches below POA).

Conclusions were arrived at using Applied Ballistics because math is more accurate than Jack O'Connor.

Your accurate math has proved that these two are exactly the same. I look forward to seeing all the antelope hunters and their 180gr 308 loads.

I will admit the difference in trajectory isn’t enough to amount to much, even with lighter bullets - that shouldn’t have been pushed that as hard as I did - the 6.5 PRC, 270 or 7 mag are my normal deer calibers and my Jack O Connor logic works better comparing those to the 308.

The 308 crowd is very passionate about their cartridge, I’ll give you that.

 

[stoopiddumbman]

I shoot 7mm-08 but if I had a 6.5 creedmore and someone asked me what I was shooting I would tell them 7mm-08

 

[Sccritterkiller]

308 with a can. Greater bullet and ammo selection for a 308. Price a couple box's of 6.5 and then price a couple boxes of 308 with the same bullet. Barrel will last longer in the 308.
I am pushing 150gr AB at 2800 fps out of 18" supressed 308. I would put a can on either one being able to spot your hits thru the scope and the audible sound of hit are great when hunting alone.

 

[hereinaz]

These caliber discussions are always interesting to watch, and participate in. The physical differences can actually be measured.

Compare similar bullets in 6.5 and .308 and then run the ballistics. Take the ballistics and apply them to your hunt and your preferences. It’s preferences that get argued most of all.

Choices are about tradeoffs. Those who “want a bigger bullet” come in a spectrum too, because every 6.5 could be a .270, .284, 308, .338 or .375.

Those who don’t want recoil say a .223 77gr TMK is big enough and choices could go up from there until a 6.5 is too much recoil.

Couple things I think about that are evident in “Jack’s tradeoffs” and I wonder whether he would be stuck in the era of the .270 with Levi’s and flannel or whether he would have continued to adopt new rifles calibers and clothes.

Heck, he might be like most people that do what they know and enjoy. Most people like the music they listened to as a kid and hate the new fangled stuff.

He used the.270 for its proven killing capacity at longer ranges for that time because he hunted in situations required it for higher confidence and “flat shooting” without rangefinders.

He didn’t listen to the “get closer” crowd cause he wanted to kill and the flat shooting .270 did it.

He didn’t require a big bullet to kill confidently.

He was willing to swim against the current of “I got muh 30-06 that killed more animals” or whatever else was going on at that time.

Heck, maybe he was getting paid big bucks as an “influencer” to sell the .270 and would have enjoyed a flat brimmed hat at the same time.

Hard to say what a dead man would say about the 6.5 creed

 

[Cannonball]

id pick 6.5

 

[MallardSX2]

.308