45-70 Subsonic load data

[WKR]

Last week I posted about trying to use a certain powder as a replacement for unique since Alliant is pretty much gone now.
I had no responses so I dont think anyone here has tried it. Well I went ahead and gave it a shot and it worked out great.
VV N330 is a great substitute for unique and seems to be insensitive to case fill or fill position.
I started with 14 grains and it was a little slow at 980 fps, loaded some at 14.5 and I'm getting a consistent 1020 fps. At my elevation the sound barrier is 1080 fps, so I'm comfortably below that and decided to stay at the 14.5 of N330

I'm shooting a 400gr Speer jacketed soft point over 14.5gr VV N330 in starline brass with win lrp out of a marlin 1895G
And a SilencerCo hybrid 46.

Subs out of a 45-70 are a whole lot of fun

If you have any more 45-70 subsonic loads post them here

 

[Mtnbkr]

I’m using the same powder. Had some unique, VV N330 , tite group and Win 231. The unique and VV were very close, almost identical. Ended up going with VV of course. Using 400 gr. Cast for subs. Didn’t know about the Speer 400 gr. Just ordered 200 of those. Thanks for the information!

 

[Nine Banger]

This is 450 Marlin, but same difference.

These may be obsolete given your news tho.

I have factory seconds 300gr JHPs:
- 12gr Unique…fps: avg 1039fps
- just posted to save folks some time/$...don't buy these for subsonic...there is light gassing 5/8” back on 20% of circumference of case after firing. Going up with the load eliminates this but they are transonic and cracking at this speed. I don't crimp due to obsolete brass and use in Ruger No.1 and Desert Tech bolt gun.

More Unique Data:

• 12.5 gr Unique 962/999
• 13gr 1108/1122
• 14gr 1102/1109
• 15gr 1259/1191
• 16gr 1234/xxxx (barely any gassing)

405gr LBT heat treated solids wlngc loaded 2.540”

• These rounds all sealed…
• 13gr Unique: 1111 avg
• 13gr Unique: 1130!
• 12.5gr Unique 1073, 1147, 1095
• 12gr Unique 1039, 1053, 1081, 1065
• 13gr Trail Boss 1006, 1008

 

[Nine Banger]

This was stupid, but I was in the mood:

8/18/24:

500gr TSX w/ 16gr Unique, they were around 800fps and not consistent flyers

 

[Mtnbkr]

I’m getting some leading with my cast subs. From what I have read, I shouldn’t be. I bought a bunch of 400 gr. Cast for cheap at a reloading supply . They were packed in a plastic bag, so I have no idea the hardness. That is one reason I jumped on the jacketed speers. Other than the leading, they shoot well. Scrubbing lead isn’t any fun.

 

[WKR]

I’m getting some leading with my cast subs. From what I have read, I shouldn’t be. I bought a bunch of 400 gr. Cast for cheap at a reloading supply . They were packed in a plastic bag, so I have no idea the hardness. That is one reason I jumped on the jacketed speers. Other than the leading, they shoot well. Scrubbing lead isn’t any fun.

The 400 gr Speers have been great for subs and supers for me. I think you will like em. Accurate and easy to load/crimp.

 

[Nine Banger]

I just got a pound of N330 from Midway.

Here's my data from the first experience.

14.5gr N330:

410gr Sub-x #45052 Hornady

avg 1053fps

405gr wlngc Cast Performance Bullet Company

avg 1136 fps

300gr hollow point (factory seconds...I think these are Hornady #4500)

avg 1159 fps

 

[Ozarkansas]

I’ve run 525 hardcast lead bullets with between 8.5-11.0 grains of unique and they work just fine. Velocity is around 800-1000 FPS depending on the exact powder charge

 

[peaceman]

I just got a pound of N330 from Midway.

Here's my data from the first experience.

14.5gr N330:

410gr Sub-x #45052 Hornady

avg 1053fps

405gr wlngc Cast Performance Bullet Company

avg 1136 fps

300gr hollow point (factory seconds...I think these are Hornady #4500)

avg 1159 fps



View attachment 790862

How were your groups with the Sub-X bullets? I recently found Unique on the shelf at my LGS. Will look at N330.

 

[Nine Banger]

How were your groups with the Sub-X bullets? I recently found Unique on the shelf at my LGS. Will look at N330.

I didn't shoot paper. I just haphazardly sent them to steel to get the fps and there were lots of other hits on the plate but if I check later when I get ready to put them to work I'll try to remember to follow up.

I just loaded some subsonic 280 Remington with N330 and they worked great and here's the kicker: The N330 predictably moves thru a powder drop. Unique is all over the place and needs to be measured by hand.

 

[Nine Banger]

Folks on this thread that are going to get into this type of loading, please add some kind of overall checking action to your reloading process after filling your cases and before seating.

I put all my rounds in a loading block and shine a light down the case necks to make sure the powder is uniform.

If you double charge one of these rounds it will ruin your gun. The pressure is enough to crack wood, bend parts and swell your chamber.

 

[Bluefish]

Ok, here goes

410 sub x 20.5g of 2400, 1040 in 14” and 1050 in 20”
500g maker 19.5g of 2400 1050-1080.
500g maker 23g 5744.
400g maker 24g 5744 1050 ish. Really depends on rifle and temp. This is my hunting load.

 

[WKR]

Folks on this thread that are going to get into this type of loading, please add some kind of overall checking action to your reloading process after filling your cases and before seating.

I put all my rounds in a loading block and shine a light down the case necks to make sure the powder is uniform.

If you double charge one of these rounds it will ruin your gun. The pressure is enough to crack wood, bend parts and swell your chamber.

This should be standard operating procedure on all handloads.

Its always been for me anyhow, even on precision rifle stuff that wouldn't take a double charge. No charge or squib loads are just as shitty as a double charge.

 

[Nine Banger]

This should be standard operating procedure on all handloads.

Its always been for me anyhow, even on precision rifle stuff that wouldn't take a double charge. No charge or squib loads are just as shitty as a double charge.

Right but it’s very easy to miss a double charge with these light loads.

For most rounds we load a double charge will still be in the funnel.

With these subsonic loads it goes from “barely any” to “some” and “some” will ruin your gun.

I’ve shot a squib and a double and the double is shittier than the squib.

In my case the double came right after the squib...who would have thought, right? Hindsight...

 

[Bluefish]

This should be standard operating procedure on all handloads.

Its always been for me anyhow, even on precision rifle stuff that wouldn't take a double charge. No charge or squib loads are just as shitty as a double charge.

The issue with sub loads is squibs. I know most manuals suggest starting high and working down. The 45-70 with maker subs really doesn’t have much room and the loads I use a double charge would not fit.

 

[Nine Banger]

The 45-70 with maker subs really doesn’t have much room and the loads I use a double charge would not fit.

Your powders seem safer in this regard.

The Unique and N330 loads are around 25-30% of case capacity.

 

[Bluefish]

Your powders seem safer in this regard.

The Unique and N330 loads are around 25-30% of case capacity.

I tried unique as I found some old load data for 500g cast. From quickload pressure was higher than I wanted to get speed. Ql does struggle with sub loads. I think it’s way off but didn’t want to stretch a frame proving it.

Loading for a contender, so needed really low pressure. Would have been fine in a marlin or ruger #1

 

[Ozarkansas]

Folks on this thread that are going to get into this type of loading, please add some kind of overall checking action to your reloading process after filling your cases and before seating.

I put all my rounds in a loading block and shine a light down the case necks to make sure the powder is uniform.

If you double charge one of these rounds it will ruin your gun. The pressure is enough to crack wood, bend parts and swell your chamber.

When I’ve done it, I’ve fully prepped all my brass (sized/primed/expanded) and then kept it all upside down in the ammo box. Only one piece of brass is ever right side up and only once I have the powder measured and ready to pour. Then it immediately gets a bullet. That minimizes the possibility of double charging