35 Whelen Max Effective Range

[35WhelenAI]

Picked up some Barnes 180 TTSX Vortex factory 35 Whelen ammo from Midway this past week. Just checked, they upped the price $4 a box since I placed my order less than a week ago, kinda BS IMO, but still available. Also have the 200 TTSX Vortex ammo available.

Granted, mine is a 35 AI, but factory standard Whelen ammo shoots just fine with only a small velocity loss from advertised and I get a fire formed case for reloading every time.

What I've wanted to do for a number of years, is get a standard Whelen in a single shot and hunt deer/elk with it. Thoughts on which single shot to consider (other than a Ruger #1) but I don't want a brake up front and most seem to have one.

 

[Balderdash]

Picked up some Barnes 180 TTSX Vortex factory 35 Whelen ammo from Midway this past week. Just checked, they upped the price $4 a box since I placed my order less than a week ago, kinda BS IMO, but still available. Also have the 200 TTSX Vortex ammo available.

Granted, mine is a 35 AI, but factory standard Whelen ammo shoots just fine with only a small velocity loss from advertised and I get a fire formed case for reloading every time.

What I've wanted to do for a number of years, is get a standard Whelen in a single shot and hunt deer/elk with it. Thoughts on which single shot to consider (other than a Ruger #1) but I don't want a brake up front and most seem to have one.

Any particular reason for the single shot?

Between ML's and a couple Ruger #1's, I've done a fair amount of hunting and killing with single shots. When so equipped, I tend to keep the shots closer than I would with a repeater that offers quick follow ups. Initial wind call might be off or the animal moves at the last minute, etc, etc.

 

[gerry35]

I'll find out once the new barrel arrives, but I mostly went with AI for better headspacing. I'd guess 25fps

How did your project turn out?

 

[S-3 ranch]

Picked up some Barnes 180 TTSX Vortex factory 35 Whelen ammo from Midway this past week. Just checked, they upped the price $4 a box since I placed my order less than a week ago, kinda BS IMO, but still available. Also have the 200 TTSX Vortex ammo available.

Granted, mine is a 35 AI, but factory standard Whelen ammo shoots just fine with only a small velocity loss from advertised and I get a fire formed case for reloading every time.

What I've wanted to do for a number of years, is get a standard Whelen in a single shot and hunt deer/elk with it. Thoughts on which single shot to consider (other than a Ruger #1) but I don't want a brake up front and most seem to have one.

I was going to buy a CVA 35w and shoot 225gr , but found a 375 ruger and it is throwing 235 tsx @ 3040 & 270 ttsx @ 2860
my buddy bought the CVA and it’s very nice shooter

 

[35WhelenAI]

Any particular reason for the single shot?

Between ML's and a couple Ruger #1's, I've done a fair amount of hunting and killing with single shots. When so equipped, I tend to keep the shots closer than I would with a repeater that offers quick follow ups. Initial wind call might be off or the animal moves at the last minute, etc, etc.

My 35 Whelen Ackley Improved is on an M98 action, Shilen bbl, Gentry 3 position safety, Timney trigger, Bansner High tech Specialties stock and now extinct one piece hinged floor plate/aluminum bottom metal I got from Bownells. Holds 5+1 cartridges on board.

I can count on one hand and have fingers left over the times I've needed more than one shot. Absolute feeling of confidence with six shots on board anytime I squeeze off the first one. With the distance I'm shooting out to 400 yards I haven't had an issue with wind or game movement that I could identify that made a difference with any .358 200-250 gr bullet in 22 seasons with the AI. However, those are very real things to consider.

I am simply looking for something a bit different and feel pretty comfortable giving it "a shot". In 30 years, I haven't taken a single head of game with anything but handloads in any rifle. This will be a set it and forget it, run what you brung factory load in the standard Whelen chamber. Something about that appeals as well.

 

[LaHunter]

Picked up some Barnes 180 TTSX Vortex factory 35 Whelen ammo from Midway this past week. Just checked, they upped the price $4 a box since I placed my order less than a week ago, kinda BS IMO, but still available. Also have the 200 TTSX Vortex ammo available.

Granted, mine is a 35 AI, but factory standard Whelen ammo shoots just fine with only a small velocity loss from advertised and I get a fire formed case for reloading every time.

What I've wanted to do for a number of years, is get a standard Whelen in a single shot and hunt deer/elk with it. Thoughts on which single shot to consider (other than a Ruger #1) but I don't want a brake up front and most seem to have one.

You could build a single shot on a T/C Encore receiver, if you can find one at a reasonable price. Most likely you will have to overpay for one since they no longer make them. I built one with an MGM barrel. With only a handful of rounds through it, I have shot 5 rounds into approximately 1" at 100 yards with Winchester 200 grain factory ammo.

 

[Balderdash]

My 35 Whelen Ackley Improved is on an M98 action, Shilen bbl, Gentry 3 position safety, Timney trigger, Bansner High tech Specialties stock and now extinct one piece hinged floor plate/aluminum bottom metal I got from Bownells. Holds 5+1 cartridges on board.

I can count on one hand and have fingers left over the times I've needed more than one shot. Absolute feeling of confidence with six shots on board anytime I squeeze off the first one. With the distance I'm shooting out to 400 yards I haven't had an issue with wind or game movement that I could identify that made a difference with any .358 200-250 gr bullet in 22 seasons with the AI. However, those are very real things to consider.

I am simply looking for something a bit different and feel pretty comfortable giving it "a shot". In 30 years, I haven't taken a single head of game with anything but handloads in any rifle. This will be a set it and forget it, run what you brung factory load in the standard Whelen chamber. Something about that appeals as well.

Thanks for the response. I fully understand, hence the aforementioned Ruger #1's and a smattering of other single shots I've accumulated through the years.

Both of my Whelens are repeaters - one bolt, one 7600 carbine; like you, I haven't had too much need for a follow up on 20 or so head of game taken with a Whelen.

What really had me thinking about range limitations with a single shot lately are my efforts to take an ML out as far as is practical. While I can consistently hit 450yd + targets with an ML, the wind drift and drop are significant, making exactness in calculating both paramount. Coupled with the fact that you can't quickly follow up a bad call with info from the first shot, I've decided to keep my shots on game when so equipped constrained to ranges in which, like you pointed out, the wind and drop window is much wider.

 

[MAP1]

Thanks for the response. I fully understand, hence the aforementioned Ruger #1's and a smattering of other single shots I've accumulated through the years.

Both of my Whelens are repeaters - one bolt, one 7600 carbine; like you, I haven't had too much need for a follow up on 20 or so head of game taken with a Whelen.

What really had me thinking about range limitations with a single shot lately are my efforts to take an ML out as far as is practical. While I can consistently hit 450yd + targets with an ML, the wind drift and drop are significant, making exactness in calculating both paramount. Coupled with the fact that you can't quickly follow up a bad call with info from the first shot, I've decided to keep my shots on game when so equipped constrained to ranges in which, like you pointed out, the wind and drop window is much wider.

How’s the accuracy of your 7600 carbine? I’m considering reboring my 7600 22 inch to 35 Whelen for Iowa deer. 350 yard shots are possible so if the accuracy isn’t there I could still use it as a woods gun.

 

[Balderdash]

How’s the accuracy of your 7600 carbine? I’m considering reboring my 7600 22 inch to 35 Whelen for Iowa deer. 350 yard shots are possible so if the accuracy isn’t there I could still use it as a woods gun.

Accuracy very good on the carbine 7600. 1.5" or better @ 100. Timney Trigger upgrade. Mine is OEM, not a rebore; but I have some experience with a couple of rebores from JES, and they GTG.

Just this fall I put the Sightron 1.75-5 on it. Had a Made in USA Burris compact 2-7 on it for a long time, but the Sightron is brighter and has better FOV and eye box. I have it in QR rings and have a peep sight on the rear sight ramp. Sometimes if the snow is wet and falling, its tough to keep the scope clear enough to use while traipsing through thick conifers, whereas the peep can be quickly scraped off with one hand.

 

[Leaf Litter]

How did your project turn out?

It turned out great, took a buck with it on opening morning. The bare rifle weighs about 8.6 lb which helps soak up recoil pretty well with an aftermarket butt pad. Tikka T3X, 24" Savage Magnum contour 35 Whelen AI barrel from Mcgowen w/ radial brake.

I have done some load development with Winchester fire formed 35 Whelen brass:

180 TTSX topped out at 3070 fps with IMR 3031. I recently picked up some IMR 8208 XBR and it's supposed to get 50 more fps than 3031. Great accuracy all the way to pressure. ~ 1MOA out to 400 yards.

The 254gr (more like 253) Power Hammer got to 2725 fps and ~1 MOA when stoked with Varget. I'm hoping XBR gets me to 2750, because why not?

Hornady 200gr FTX was a disappointing load. I pushed it up to about 2875 fps with W748 and 2750 with Sta-BALL Match, but accuracy was bad @ 3 ish MOA. I gave up on that bullet after never seeing accuracy. I don't know if the FTX was too soft for close to 3kfps?

Hornady 200gr Spire Point fared about the same as the FTX in terms of velocity, but shot a bit better @ 1.5 MOA. I'm making this my plinking bullet and loading to around 2600 fps. I think I'll be able to find a little more accuracy if I play around a little.

I'm not 100% married to the 180 TTSX as my long-term deer load, I would like something with more fragmentation. I'm hoping hammer puts a tipped bullet out in 358 before next hunting season. Something between 200-230 grains with a significant boat tail would be perfect. It would get me out to 500+ yards effective range @ Iowa elevation and easily 600 in the mountains before I run out of expansion velocity. The 160gr Cutting Edge Raptor has also caught my eye. I reckon I can get 3200 fps fairly easily.

Anyway, that turned into a windy post fast.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Nice info. What makes you want more fragmentation? Sounds like a silly question given that Barnes retain all of their weight and it's clear you are looking for something that doesn't.

You are leaving velocity on the table with the the old standby powders. I got 90-100 fps more with Power Pro Varmint and the 200 TTSX vs IMR 4064. Try working up loads for the 180/200 class with Power Pro Varmint powder and Speer data as the guide. 2000-MR is the ticket for 225-250 class of bullets, again using Speer data or Sierra data for their 225.

 

[Leaf Litter]

Nice info. What makes you want more fragmentation? Sounds like a silly question given that Barnes retain all of their weight and it's clear you are looking for something that doesn't.

You are leaving velocity on the table with the the old standby powders. I got 90-100 fps more with Power Pro Varmint and the 200 TTSX vs IMR 4064. Try working up loads for the 180/200 class with Power Pro Varmint powder and Speer data as the guide. 2000-MR is the ticket for 225-250 class of bullets, again using Speer data or Sierra data for their 225.

Honestly I haven't tried them because I already had powder that fit the burn rate and rarely see PP on the shelves near me. I'll keep an eye out and hopefully give it a shot this summer.

As far as wanting fragmentation, I just figured it increases blood loss through multiple wound channels while still having the shank for penetration. There's no perfect bullet, but it's fun looking. The TTSX did it's job this year, so I'm not unhappy with it.

 

[gerry35]

It turned out great, took a buck with it on opening morning. The bare rifle weighs about 8.6 lb which helps soak up recoil pretty well with an aftermarket butt pad. Tikka T3X, 24" Savage Magnum contour 35 Whelen AI barrel from Mcgowen w/ radial brake.

I have done some load development with Winchester fire formed 35 Whelen brass:

180 TTSX topped out at 3070 fps with IMR 3031. I recently picked up some IMR 8208 XBR and it's supposed to get 50 more fps than 3031. Great accuracy all the way to pressure. ~ 1MOA out to 400 yards.

The 254gr (more like 253) Power Hammer got to 2725 fps and ~1 MOA when stoked with Varget. I'm hoping XBR gets me to 2750, because why not?

Hornady 200gr FTX was a disappointing load. I pushed it up to about 2875 fps with W748 and 2750 with Sta-BALL Match, but accuracy was bad @ 3 ish MOA. I gave up on that bullet after never seeing accuracy. I don't know if the FTX was too soft for close to 3kfps?

Hornady 200gr Spire Point fared about the same as the FTX in terms of velocity, but shot a bit better @ 1.5 MOA. I'm making this my plinking bullet and loading to around 2600 fps. I think I'll be able to find a little more accuracy if I play around a little.

I'm not 100% married to the 180 TTSX as my long-term deer load, I would like something with more fragmentation. I'm hoping hammer puts a tipped bullet out in 358 before next hunting season. Something between 200-230 grains with a significant boat tail would be perfect. It would get me out to 500+ yards effective range @ Iowa elevation and easily 600 in the mountains before I run out of expansion velocity. The 160gr Cutting Edge Raptor has also caught my eye. I reckon I can get 3200 fps fairly easily.

Anyway, that turned into a windy post fast.

Thanks for the info, glad your Tikka turned out so well. Mine's built on a LH Rem 700 but would likely do it on a Tikka these days. Not disappointed in the 700 though, it's been a good gun.

I really like IMR 8208 in my standard chamber with 200's and am going to go back to it for 225's most likely. Should be as good in your AI chamber and get some more speed. I picked up some CFE 223 to try with the 225's and 250's, supposed to be a really good powder with excellent speed.

If you want rapid expansion the 225 gr Sierra is a good one and is accurate too. Maybe some of the newer mono bullets that fragment somewhat would be a good choice for what you want. The 200 Gr Accubond and 200 gr TTSX are all around favorite's of mine and I like the 225 gr Accubond for moose. Any of those 4 bullets would work well for deer to moose to be honest.

I never tried the 180 gr TTSX since the 200 gr version works so well, probably should try it one day just because. You mentioned Cutting Edge and Hammer, some cool options available from both that I would like to try one day. Those 160-180 gr bullets will get some serious speed, even more in your AI chamber.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Honestly I haven't tried them because I already had powder that fit the burn rate and rarely see PP on the shelves near me. I'll keep an eye out and hopefully give it a shot this summer.

As far as wanting fragmentation, I just figured it increases blood loss through multiple wound channels while still having the shank for penetration. There's no perfect bullet, but it's fun looking. The TTSX did it's job this year, so I'm not unhappy with it.

Looking at my post, I may have come across brash, not intended. Availability is the main player for what we can choose from, agreed.

What data (Barnes or other) have you found that shows XBR 8208 giving 50 fps more than IMR 3031 with the 180 TTSX or any bullet in general in a direct comparison? Barnes doesn't show IMR 3031 in their most recent data for the Whelen, and I haven't been able to get close to the velocity above with IMR 3031.

From my experience with the additional length of monos (even with the grooves reducing bearing surface some) Barnes bullets typically do better with a slightly slower powder vs jacketed bullets of the same weight.

 

[Leaf Litter]

Looking at my post, I may have come across brash, not intended. Availability is the main player for what we can choose from, agreed.

What data (Barnes or other) have you found that shows XBR 8208 giving 50 fps more than IMR 3031 with the 180 TTSX or any bullet in general in a direct comparison? Barnes doesn't show IMR 3031 in their most recent data for the Whelen, and I haven't been able to get close to the velocity above with IMR 3031.

From my experience with the additional length of monos (even with the grooves reducing bearing surface some) Barnes bullets typically do better with a slightly slower powder vs jacketed bullets of the same weight.

I took no offense whatsoever. I was a tad leery of those powders after hearing some other people have issues with temp sensitivity, but I also understand that all powders will vary with extreme temperatures so, IMO, it's not a huge deal.

Any ammo I load 'hot' tends to be strictly hunting ammo and I don't hunt anything in the heat, so there's no danger of overpressure.

A number of other people who run 35 Whelen mentioned that their best velocities came from 8208 XBR. Published data usually has it as one of the quickest powders also. Maybe it'll be faster, maybe not, but it will get me reloading and behind the trigger regardless so I'm calling it a win

 

[35WhelenAI]

I got to 3000 fps with the Original 180 X in my AI with IMR 3031 years ago. I developed a bunch of loads when I had the gun made with all manner of powder and bullets. Gunsmith told me work up your loads, then bring it back and I'll blue it to save wear and tear on the finish, I appreciated that. Gave a baseline of tendencies in the that rifle. 3070 fps and IMR 3031 with a 180 TTSX (less bearing surface) doesn't seem out of line.

For all the Whelen guys, Power Pro Varmint in Speer data tops XBR 8208 by over 90 fps with Speer 180 gr bullets. Should be similar with 180 TTSX in terms of the potential. PPV bests IMR 8208 by over 80 fps with 225 gr class bullets.

There is no data for the 200 gr class of bullets using PPV. I extrapolated data from Speer for the 180 and 220 gr bullets. Then used case head expansion measurements with a micrometer to find a max load, using traditional signs as well.

As a note, I had no traditional signs at 3030 fps with the 200 TTSX and PPV. Case head expansion said it was safe as well but based on experience, going up in charge would have put CHE at the limit or over so I called it good. For measuring CHE, I used low pressure once fired fire formed brass that measured no expansion (was the same measurement as new brass) and worked from there. Haven't taken that load afield yet, my old stand by load with IMR 4064 has been so good, no need to chase those last fps.

When I got into CHE, I was happy my old standby load with the 200 TTSX and IMR 4064 at 2940 fps was in the safe range of case head expansion. That load has taken a dump truck load and more of deer and elk over the years.

 

[astocks2622]

So far my best load has been 250 partitions going 2650, pushed by reloader 15. I figure 400 is my max range for expansion with that bullet. This is my go-to gun and load here in Alaska. More than enough for hunting situations, and enough oomph I trust it against brown bear.

I did take my first black bear with it at 375 yards. Black bear aren't all that tough, but it still only made it 40 yards with a through and through on the lungs. 1.25" exit, only hit ribs.

I haven't been able to find the 250 grain partitions in 2 and 1/2 years. I'm down to 18 rounds. I tried a load ladder with 225 accubonds and didn't get the best results, though they'd work in a pinch. Considering going to the 200 grain barnes ttsx, so thanks for all the info! Penetration with modest expansion is my primary reason for picking the heavier partitions, so thinking the lighter ttsx should give similar on-game performance?

 

[Leaf Litter]

I got a smallish Whitetail buck (by Iowa standards) with 180 TTSX this year and I can guarantee that you will have adequate penetration. I hit back a little on a heavily quartering away shot and had full expansion (presumably, bullet was not recovered) and 1 petal fragmented off. 1" exit wound.

I'm going to switch to either Hammer or Cutting edge bullets for a more dramatic and consistent fragmentation on deer sized game. The shank will still penetrate anything and the fragmented petals cause a lot more bleeding.

 

[35WhelenAI]

My experience with the 200 TTSX and on-game performance is quick expansion because of the polycarbonate tip pushing backwards into a fairly big cavity compared to other Barnes bullets without the tip (and a smaller hollow point). I have never recovered one on a deer or elk. The velocity combined with ballistic coefficient, makes them the most ballistically efficient bullet for the 35 Whelen class of cartridges that I have found.

 

[astocks2622]

I got a smallish Whitetail buck (by Iowa standards) with 180 TTSX this year and I can guarantee that you will have adequate penetration. I hit back a little on a heavily quartering away shot and had full expansion (presumably, bullet was not recovered) and 1 petal fragmented off. 1" exit wound.

I'm going to switch to either Hammer or Cutting edge bullets for a more dramatic and consistent fragmentation on deer sized game. The shank will still penetrate anything and the fragmented petals cause a lot more bleeding.

Good to hear. Like everyone, I want my cake and to eat it too. I want long range/low velocity expansion, and 48" or straigh-line penetration. That way I can tag black bear in the lungs at 400, but also am not worried about the bullet fragmenting on a brown bear skull plate at 15 yards...