.30-30 vs AR-10 vs 12gauge for grizzly bear defense

[STevenQ178]

308 Win loaded with 180gr ttsx can be an effective bear round at least in close range.

 

[North of 60]

A light AR-10 with good bullets and a 16" barrel is very totable and is easy to fire multiple rounds quickly, especially with a suppressor.

 

[medvedyt]

I've been in close proximity to several grizzlies over the years and have taken a few but only two were at close range. The most recent was a large boar that I knew was traveling toward me in thick, low bush. When he broke out of the bushes I shot him in the chest with 12ga Brenneke Slugs. The slug penetrated through the lung, liver area and severed his spine far enough back to paralyze his back legs. He dropped at 13 paces. I often have heard grizzlies can run 30 MPH. I've chased some down the road and consider 30 MPH as a stretch but not by much. 30MPH is 44 ft/second so 13 paces doesn't allow much time.

All of my hunting guns must fit me like a fine upland shotgun, or I modify them until they do fit me. ARs do not fit much of anyone. I've watched numerous police programs where SWAT is entering a building with guns up and ready. the butt plate of the ARs is always half above the shoulder of the cop.

IMO, the old Foster Slug is not the better choice and buckshot is even worse unless the bear is very close to the muzzle. I have a friend that shot 150 bears from a heli. His choice was 12ga Brenneke for one shot kills. The bears were chered for local villagers and they complained about meat loss from Brenneke Slugs. He then switched to Foster Slugs ad had to shoot each bear multiple times, but they could "eat right up to the hole".

brenneke especially at short distance are doing damages that is why im using them in 12 ga when needed camping or hauling meat after a success in hunting. i used brenneke in 12 and 16ga with wild boars in europe and it always worked but yes you can loose some meat weight but i never lost a boar ...

 

[Keb]

If you are looking for a purpose built bear gun, I would take a 12 gauge with slugs and ideally a rifled barrel. Simply more stopping power.

 

[Pilsner]

steel slugs and not lead in 12 guage.

or the old Remington Copper Solid slugs. Although I don't know if they still make them. I would NOT be using any Foster style or lead slugs if I wanted max penetration. The SDs on those are abysmally low.

 

[Pilsner]

Let's hope the GW is better at math than this.

An athletic military aged male can cover 40 yards in under 5 seconds. If that male becomes hostile, pulls a knife, and moves towards me, I'm well within my rights to use lethal force to defend myself and others at 50 yards away. A grizzly is much faster. If a territorial boar or defensive sow moves in my direction aggressively, I'm unloading my magazine regardless of distance.

I would suspect that in that situation I would execute a "double mag dump", aka empty my firearm's magazine at the bear and my own "internal magazine" right into my pants.

 

[AKAV8R]

Have used all of the above and killed the most brown/black bears with my Dept issue A.R. in .556. 90 percent of the time it's head shots, but have punched multiples through the lungs broadside, and typically that's a double/triple tap at 10-20 yds. Never lost a wounded one yet. Should be obvious to use quality ammo, no ball or other crap. My personal truck gun is my old Marlin 30-30. Light and well balanced, slick action and points like my right arm. It kills bears quite efficiently, in spite of the weak numbers on paper. Use whatever weapon you feel the most confident in. Weight matters a lot to me, my typical loadout is 20-25 lbs plus rifle, which adds up for an older guy. You get to choose for you. Me personally, when possible, I choose a .338 cal or .375 with open sights when knowingly pursuing big brown bears; nuisance bears near the villages/towns at night, or a wounded bear that someone shot in the ass with his Mini 14. Last weapon I grab is a shotgun/slug combo. We don't even carry them in the "work" vehicles anymore. Heavy recoil and poor performance on moose/bears compared to the high velocity centerfire has made them all but obsolete. YRMV.

 

[AKAV8R]

or the old Remington Copper Solid slugs. Although I don't know if they still make them. I would NOT be using any Foster style or lead slugs if I wanted max penetration. The SDs on those are abysmally low.

Copper sabot shotgun slugs outperform soft lead slugs dramatically, at least they do when shot into Brown bears, Moose, and vehicles at close ranges. Highway impacts with animals in Ak results in many such observations. All SG slugs fall far behind any 30 caliber centerfire rifle with common hunting bullets. Straight line penetration is where the slugs fail. It’s not uncommon to see SG slugs fail to penetrate the chest cavity on both animals, especially after hits into massive shoulders or leg bones. Energy numbers on paper doesn’t equate to real world performance. Similar dismal performance on human targets is well documented, including poor cover/vehicle penetration. I’ll take a large caliber revolver or 10MM over a SG every time for those times I don’t want to pack a rifle such as sport fishing or packing meat. (I was taught handguns are mostly used to fight your way to a rifle).

 

[long hunter]

Make sure you have bear spray and use it I hear ole Hiram likes his food kicked up a notch.

 

[JoeK]

I'd probably just roll with the 9mm on my chest per usual and not even tote a long gun.
I have no experience with a lever gun so that's right out for me.

I'd generally prefer the weight and carry factor of the shotgun vs "standard" AR10 and until I just read AKAV8R posts above I was under the impression that 12ga brenneke slugs were still preferred by officials in AK where the real world data on shooting Grizz comes in numbers. My Brother used to work as a bear guard for work crews up there and that's what they were issued but it was 10+ yrs ago

I've got an SFAR that handles nicely and at the end of the list if I was actually going to fend off a bear attack I'd want the AR10...just wouldn't want to tote that through the Mts.

 

[mcseal2]

I’d probably take the 30-30 off that list with buffalo bore’s dangerous game ammo or some other load designed to penetrate. I’ve shot lever guns quite a bit and am used to them. I find them pretty easy to shoot quick.

Nothing wrong with the other options either. Its just what strikes the right balance of portability and shootability for you.

I tend to worry more about ammo that will penetrate deep from a platform I can shoot well than anything else.

 

[BLJ]

Have used all of the above and killed the most brown/black bears with my Dept issue A.R. in .556. 90 percent of the time it's head shots, but have punched multiples through the lungs broadside, and typically that's a double/triple tap at 10-20 yds. Never lost a wounded one yet. Should be obvious to use quality ammo, no ball or other crap. My personal truck gun is my old Marlin 30-30. Light and well balanced, slick action and points like my right arm. It kills bears quite efficiently, in spite of the weak numbers on paper. Use whatever weapon you feel the most confident in. Weight matters a lot to me, my typical loadout is 20-25 lbs plus rifle, which adds up for an older guy. You get to choose for you. Me personally, when possible, I choose a .338 cal or .375 with open sights when knowingly pursuing big brown bears; nuisance bears near the villages/towns at night, or a wounded bear that someone shot in the ass with his Mini 14. Last weapon I grab is a shotgun/slug combo. We don't even carry them in the "work" vehicles anymore. Heavy recoil and poor performance on moose/bears compared to the high velocity centerfire has made them all but obsolete. YRMV.

What ammo in the AR 5.55?

 

[HunterGatherer]

Who here has shot a charging bear in defense of their life ? What weapon did you use ? How did it end ? This “what if” bear charging scenario gets brought up time and time again with the ensuing discussion about weapon and caliber choices. How often does the scenario actually become a reality and how often did the chosen weapon save someone’s life ? Asking purely out of curiosity- not criticizing anyone’s thought process…

 

[Steve300xcw]

Ive never used my CCW and I think a 10lb fire extinguisher is better than a 5lber, though I have never needed one of those either...

 

[HunterGatherer]

Ive never used my CCW and I think a 10lb fire extinguisher is better than a 5lber, though I have never needed one of those either...

You should probably wear a full face helmet whenever you drive a car too… just to be safe

 

[Steve300xcw]

There was a time in my life, where that wouldnt have been a bad idea

 

[M1SF1T]

From that list I'd take the 12 ga.

For years I used to keep a 12 ga pump for bear defence in the BC backcountry.

Now I use a short barrel Marlin 45-70 with open sites as my dedicated wilderness defense weapon. We can't carry sidearms where I am, but I would too if I could.

I haven't had to shoot a charging bear, but I think the best practices surrounding this dictate quick handling and hard hitting as the characteristics you want. In close performance is what matters.

Anyone relying on .223 for bear defence must be scaring the bears away with their big balls, there's no way I would be going into the backcountry carrying that.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Statistics say that bear spray is more effective than a gun at stopping a bear. I was wondering if there was anyone that has had first hand experience with either…

 

[RockAndSage]

Statistics say that bear spray is more effective than a gun at stopping a bear.

There are 3 types of lies: There are lies. Then there are damned lies. And above all, there are statistics.

Joking, not joking. What constitutes a "bear", and what constitutes "stopping" can skew those statistics in lethally misleading ways.

All it takes is to see one dude, one time, so extremely pissed that he powers through getting sprayed, to never trust spray for grizzly as the sole choice. Options are good.

Your point about wondering who actually has had a bear charge them is great though. Thus far in this thread, I'm inclined to pay very close attention to @AKAV8R .

 

[HunterGatherer]

There are 3 types of lies: There are lies. Then there are damned lies. And above all, there are statistics.

Joking, not joking. What constitutes a "bear", and what constitutes "stopping" can skew those statistics in lethally misleading ways.

All it takes is to see one dude, one time, so extremely pissed that he powers through getting sprayed, to never trust spray for grizzly as the sole choice. Options are good.

Your point about wondering who actually has had a bear charge them is great though. Thus far in this thread, I'm inclined to pay very close attention to @AKAV8R .

For sure, all statistics should be taken with a grain of salt. I know in my own case I don’t practice with a pistol often enough and I’m not packing a second rifle just in case so I pack spray. But I have heard some AK guys say that they have heard of bears running through sprays.

I’ve had several pretty intense standoffs with bears but never actually deployed countermeasures.