280ai or 6.5 creedmoor

[Bmcox86]

I'm going to be purchasing a Kimber hunter this spring when they go on sale or cableas sends one of those $50 off coupons out and am torn between calibers.
I have a friend with the mountain ascent in 280ai and it shoots light out but I've already have a 7mm08 that shoots the 284 round so don't know what is different coming out of the 280ai

On the other hand I've heard a lot of good things about the 6.5creedmoor and like the idea of minimal recoil

Is the difference in recoil between these too enough to go with one over the other is a 6lb rifle? What's the major advantage of one over the other.




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[robtattoo]

The Creed is probably closer to your 7-08 than the 280 is.

The .280 Ackley is a MUCH hotter 7mm than the 08 & would be better than the 6.5 for longer shots/bigger critters.
The Creed, whilst it is a great round, is a step down in power. Kinda.

What & where do you hunt?

 

[Zoo Keeper]

I can't provide feedback on calibers mentioned.

Why buy at Cabelas? I've always found local a dealer in the various places I've lived who can get anything I want significantly cheaper than Cabelas prices.


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[Stid2677]

I have both,, you get a a couple hundred FPS faster and more down range energy with the 280AI over the CM. Within 300 yards both do about the same, with the 280ai having greater muzzle flip and recoil. The 280ai has a sharp shoulder, so the CM feeds much better IMHO. Much greater selection of factory ammo for the CM over the 280ai. Comes down to what you want to brag about around the fire, a plain old 270 or 30-06 will do the same and maybe even better. But, hey I like sexy too and enjoy working up reloads during the winter. The 6.5mm Creedmore is a soft shooter for sure and will be my wife's new rifle.

 

[Beastmode]

Do you reload? A 6.5 CM is essentially a necked down 308 or 7mm-08 depending on how you look at it. You would basically have the same round you have now but a little different ballistic coefficient. I would opt for the 280 and maybe you will get lucky and find a bullet both guns like if you reload. I'm not sure what other calibers are out in the Hunter but both the 6.5 and 280 can be hard to come by in some towns if you leave your ammo at home. I think a regular 30-06, 308 270 are all great calibers and easy to find factory ammo for.

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[Bmcox86]

I plan on reloading for whichever caliber I get, I have good loads for the 7mm08 and have a 3006 that shoots light out but weighs almost ten pounds so I don't want to lug that around anywhere anymore.
The hunter is made is 3006/7mm08/308/280ai/270/243/257 and 6.5.
I'm waiting on finding out where I'm going to transfer to this summer before I purchase which will be soon I hope. Will probally be a primary deer/bear rifle and I hope to do a antelope trip to Wyoming in the next few years


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[Bmcox86]

I can't provide feedback on calibers mentioned.

Why buy at Cabelas? I've always found local a dealer in the various places I've lived who can get anything I want significantly cheaper than Cabelas prices.


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My two dealers in town ask msrp or higher and I haven't found one in anchorage that is close to what Cabelas or sportsmans has it for.


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[Tag_Soup]

Big advantage to the 6.5 cm is the ability to run heavier secant ogive bullets from a standard magazine length. I would see what the max COL you can get for each is and then see if your intended round will work. If you reload and prefer longer (higher bc) bullets like the Berger VLD's or hornady A-Max, then the creedmore will have a higher likelihood of fitting a factory magazine. I have found the 130 & 140 grain VLD's in 6.5 mm to be highly effective on any game animal up to elk at any ethical distance. If shooting factory ammo, 6.5 can be a touch on the small side depending on choice of bullet.


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[robtattoo]

Will probally be a primary deer/bear rifle and I hope to do a antelope trip to Wyoming in the next few years.

In that case, I'd be halfway tempted to either sell, or mothball, your existing '06 & replace it with the Kimber......OR......go with the .280 Ackley.
As a reloader, throw in some heavy 160gn+ loads for distance/bears/elk & little super zippy 120/130s for deer & lopers.

I don't have first hand experience with the Creed, but I did do a TON of research on the ballistics of many 6.5s before I built my long range target rig (definitely not a hunting gun, it weighs 22lb!) & as popular as the Creedmoor is, mostly because it's the new, hot, thang, it's actually kinda mediocre as 6.5s go. The 6.5x47, 6.5-284 & Swede all blow it out of the water. It's no better, ballistics speaking, than the .260rem which really didn't get the recognition it deserved until the Creed became popular & Americans woke up to the 6.5 advantage.

 

[Tag_Soup]

In that case, I'd be halfway tempted to either sell, or mothball, your existing '06 & replace it with the Kimber......OR......go with the .280 Ackley.
As a reloader, throw in some heavy 160gn+ loads for distance/bears/elk & little super zippy 120/130s for deer & lopers.

I don't have first hand experience with the Creed, but I did do a TON of research on the ballistics of many 6.5s before I built my long range target rig (definitely not a hunting gun, it weighs 22lb!) & as popular as the Creedmoor is, mostly because it's the new, hot, thang, it's actually kinda mediocre as 6.5s go. The 6.5x47, 6.5-284 & Swede all blow it out of the water. It's no better, ballistics speaking, than the .260rem which really didn't get the recognition it deserved until the Creed became popular & Americans woke up to the 6.5 advantage.

I agree with everything here. Please do t think I am detracting from any of it as it is great advice, but I would say most of this is specific to custom builds where mag length is not a restriction. The 260 Rem will do everything a 6.5 cm will it mag length is not a concern. The 280 AI will not give up any ballistics if you can use a similar BC projectile. The 6.5 CM will however walk all over the 280 AI in the recoil department. If the OP is looking for a light recoiling factory kimber, he will likely find he can get a higher BC projectile out of the 6.5 at similar muzzle velocity for 1/2 the recoil. Based on the stated need, I would recommend the 6.5. 280 AI is a magical caliber in a custom gun when you run VLD's/SMK's and jam the lands a few thousandths, but when you handicap it to sub 0.5 BC bullets, it doesn't really have a chance to excel. I also find the 6.5 cm to be very gentle on brass, which is nice considering the cost these days.


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[slick]

.

Not to derail the thread, but is that an adirondak dipped in Vias?

 

[FURMAN]

I personally would go with the 280AI. It will beat the Creedmore ballistically(not by a lot) and will have more energy. I would shoot the 168 Berger or the 162 ELD. The 280AI will have more recoil but he brake will take the edge off(neither will be bad even in the light rifle). The two advantages to the Creedmore are less weight and less recoil. I would place more importance on the ballistics and energy of the round. It would be pretty nice to have a rifle weighing less than 5 lbs though. Either way you go I bet you will be happy.

 

[robtattoo]

I plan on reloading for whichever caliber I get, I have good loads for the 7mm08 and have a 3006 that shoots light out but weighs almost ten pounds so I don't want to lug that around anywhere anymore.
The hunter is made is 3006/7mm08/308/280ai/270/243/257 and 6.5.
I'm waiting on finding out where I'm going to transfer to this summer before I purchase which will be soon I hope. Will probally be a primary deer/bear rifle and I hope to do a antelope trip to Wyoming in the next few years


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I agree with everything here. Please do t think I am detracting from any of it as it is great advice, but I would say most of this is specific to custom builds where mag length is not a restriction. The 260 Rem will do everything a 6.5 cm will it mag length is not a concern. The 280 AI will not give up any ballistics if you can use a similar BC projectile. The 6.5 CM will however walk all over the 280 AI in the recoil department. If the OP is looking for a light recoiling factory kimber, he will likely find he can get a higher BC projectile out of the 6.5 at similar muzzle velocity for 1/2 the recoil. Based on the stated need, I would recommend the 6.5. 280 AI is a magical caliber in a custom gun when you run VLD's/SMK's and jam the lands a few thousandths, but when you handicap it to sub 0.5 BC bullets, it doesn't really have a chance to excel. I also find the 6.5 cm to be very gentle on brass, which is nice considering the cost these days.


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Whilst every single word of this is true... Some times there's just no replacement for displacement
Realistically until you're beyond 4 or 500yds, BCs are pretty much meaningless.
For normal, regular hunting bullets a larger frontal surface will beat a long slippery bullet 99 times out of a hundred, in terms of terminal performance.
Also, actual required accuracy is a big factor. A sub-¼moa group really isn't necessary. Nice, but not essential. Dressing depth becomes less important as accuracy expectations diminish & there isn't an medium sized animal alive that you can't kill at 500yds with a 1moa gun.

 

[Tag_Soup]

Whilst every single word of this is true... Some times there's just no replacement for displacement
Realistically until you're beyond 4 or 500yds, BCs are pretty much meaningless.
For normal, regular hunting bullets a larger frontal surface will beat a long slippery bullet 99 times out of a hundred, in terms of terminal performance.
Also, actual required accuracy is a big factor. A sub-¼moa group really isn't necessary. Nice, but not essential. Dressing depth becomes less important as accuracy expectations diminish & there isn't an medium sized animal alive that you can't kill at 500yds with a 1moa gun.

Also a very valid point. When using traditional hunting bullets, there is no comparison. There have been a lot of large game animals killed with 165 grain nosler partitions or similar in 7mm. There aren't many "traditional" style bullets that I would shoot at large game in a 6.5. My experience in terminal ballistics is with the Berger VLD's. A high shoulder shot has never resulted in more than 2 or 3 steps.

Another argument that may or may not apply here is barrel length and action throw. I have always preferred short handy rifles. You can get a 140 VLD upwards of 2800 FPS out of a 22" barrel. I'm not a 280 AI shooter, but I would venture a guess that anything less than 25" would result in an incomplete burn.


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[16Bore]

Start with the bullet and work your way back to the headstamp. 6.5's are the hot ticket now, but your 7-08 with 162's is about all the 30-06 you need. Maybe forgo the 280AI and punch your 7-08 AI of its already the weight your looking for. Seems you have the middle pretty much covered and plenty of overlap as it is.

Id be more tempted to throw a 243 in the mix if it were me.

 

[AK Troutbum]

My two dealers in town ask msrp or higher and I haven't found one in anchorage that is close to what Cabelas or sportsmans has it for.


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I do a fair amount of business with Boondocks in Eagle River, and they have always been very good about giving me the best deal on whatever particular firearm I'm looking to buy. Anyway, just another possible option. I usually much rather deal with a mom-and-pop operation anyway.


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[Formidilosus]

For normal, regular hunting bullets a larger frontal surface will beat a long slippery bullet 99 times out of a hundred, in terms of terminal performance.

Please explain how a "regular hunting bullet" will beat a "long slippery" bullet terminally based on that fact?







Its always a constant that those who kill the least are the most adamant that "bigger is better".

 

[Bmcox86]

A lot of good information so far. I had no idea about the pros and cons before hand so I'm just taking it all in. I guess the best thing to do is figure out where I'll transfer to next and what I'll be hunting for.

I was only worried about recoil because of the weight of the rifle. I like being able to be right back into the gun for a follow up shot if need be.


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[Bmcox86]

I do a fair amount of business with Boondocks in Eagle River, and they have always been very good about giving me the best deal on whatever particular firearm I'm looking to buy. Anyway, just another possible option. I usually much rather deal with a mom-and-pop operation anyway.


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I'll give them a call, I haven't heard of them before. I did call mountain view sports after the earlier comment and they have a pretty good price but will have to order it in


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[luke moffat]

IMO these lightweight guns are hunting rifles that are carried much more than shot. My go to hunting rifle would likely be considered hard recoiling I guess by some but while doing initial load work ups I was still able to send 50 shots down and away in one sitting at the range.

If you are looking for it to be your all-round do all rifle I'd just say get a 30-06, find a good load after a couple trips to the range with a quality bullet then rock on.