.25 Cal (Quarter Bore) / Big Game Success - 25 Creed, 25-284, 25-06, 25 PRC, 25 SAUM

[sierracharlie338]

Naw man Bergers don’t kill….

Nice goat and shooting! Them 133s seem to just keep hammering for everyone.

 

[grizz19]

Well after lots of fighting it I’m going to jump on the small caliber train. Just too much good info out there on them. Going to sell the 7 PRC and build a 25 creed! Peak 44 bastion stock, tikka action, 22in carbon barrel. I’m curious what you guys like for a mono bullet for the 25 creed. I was leaning towards the hammer 95 grain hht and just pushing it fast. I’ve had good luck with hammers in other guns. Any other recommendations? I’m in Cali so lead free I’ll load the 134 eldm’s for out of state use. Guess I spent to much time in this thread, had to go 25 cal

 

[willfrye027]

Well after lots of fighting it I’m going to jump on the small caliber train. Just too much good info out there on them. Going to sell the 7 PRC and build a 25 creed! Peak 44 bastion stock, tikka action, 22in carbon barrel. I’m curious what you guys like for a mono bullet for the 25 creed. I was leaning towards the hammer 95 grain hht and just pushing it fast. I’ve had good luck with hammers in other guns. Any other recommendations? I’m in Cali so lead free I’ll load the 134 eldm’s for out of state use. Guess I spent to much time in this thread, had to go 25 cal

I use 90gr absolute hammer for that purpose myself, it’s moving about 3500 fps from my 26” barrel. Pretty nasty on hogs and deer especially at close range

Any of the lighter hammers going fast should work.

 

[Bluefish]

Well after lots of fighting it I’m going to jump on the small caliber train. Just too much good info out there on them. Going to sell the 7 PRC and build a 25 creed! Peak 44 bastion stock, tikka action, 22in carbon barrel. I’m curious what you guys like for a mono bullet for the 25 creed. I was leaning towards the hammer 95 grain hht and just pushing it fast. I’ve had good luck with hammers in other guns. Any other recommendations? I’m in Cali so lead free I’ll load the 134 eldm’s for out of state use. Guess I spent to much time in this thread, had to go 25 cal

I am using the 80g ttsx in my 25-06. Run right around 3500 in a 22”. Imho if going copper, go light for speed.

 

[grizz19]

I use 90gr absolute hammer for that purpose myself, it’s moving about 3500 fps from my 26” barrel. Pretty nasty on hogs and deer especially at close range

Any of the lighter hammers going fast should work.

My philosophy as well! I’m running the 141 HBC in my 7 prc at 3350. I think I can get around 3300 out of that 95 in a 25 creed.

I am using the 80g ttsx in my 25-06. Run right around 3500 in a 22”. Imho if going copper, go light for speed.

I’ve used the LRX’s before in a 7 rem mag and had good luck with them as well

 

[Harvey_NW]

I was leaning towards the hammer 95 grain hht and just pushing it fast.

Since it sounds like you're loading I would suggest going 25-284 or 25 PRC instead. Creed and speed aren't really copasetic. I know others have gotten different results, but out of a 20" bbl on a Tikka action I pressured out at 2,700 with a 133, and more like 2,650 at safe operating.

 

[grizz19]

Since it sounds like you're loading I would suggest going 25-284 or 25 PRC instead. Creed and speed aren't really copasetic. I know others have gotten different results, but out of a 20" bbl on a Tikka action I pressured out at 2,700 with a 133, and more like 2,650 at safe operating.

I love reloading, whether I’m any good at it or not I’m not too sure but I do enjoy the process. The reason I was leaning creed is I am assuming there would be a little more availability when it came to grass and things of that nature, and a little bit better barrel life. So with that 22 inch barrel, I may be looking at 2700ish with the 133 or 134?

 

[Harvey_NW]

I love reloading, whether I’m any good at it or not I’m not too sure but I do enjoy the process. The reason I was leaning creed is I am assuming there would be a little more availability when it came to grass and things of that nature, and a little bit better barrel life.

If you could secure 200pcs of Lapua 6.5-284 brass that could potentially last the life of the barrel, and I think sizing down to 25 can be done in one step. I think @willfrye027 has experience with both and will have better feedback on that.

So with that 22 inch barrel, I may be looking at 2700ish with the 133 or 134?

Tough to say with all the variables but based on my experience shooting 133's in a Preferred Barrel Blanks button rifled barrel on a Tikka action, I would say that's a reasonable and conservative expectation. I built mine when they first came out and was just a little bummed that I didn't go with the 284 case for the little extra juice. I just wanted to chime in because Tikka actions usually show pressure a bit earlier than some customs, so if you were looking at data from other reloaders touting faster velocities hot rodding a load, you might not get the same result.

 

[willfrye027]

If you could secure 200pcs of Lapua 6.5-284 brass that could potentially last the life of the barrel, and I think sizing down to 25 can be done in one step. I think @willfrye027 has experience with both and will have better feedback on that.


Tough to say with all the variables but based on my experience shooting 133's in a Preferred Barrel Blanks button rifled barrel on a Tikka action, I would say that's a reasonable and conservative expectation. I built mine when they first came out and was just a little bummed that I didn't go with the 284 case for the little extra juice. I just wanted to chime in because Tikka actions usually show pressure a bit earlier than some customs, so if you were looking at data from other reloaders touting faster velocities hot rodding a load, you might not get the same result.

The 25-284 was super easy to load and work with. When I had that barrel there wasn’t any 25 creedmoor headstamped brass so it was the exact same amount of work (neck down or neck up).

I had only one 25-284 barrel and it may have been slow, but I was only able to squeeze about 3040fps from a 26” tube, without using RL26. Only 100fps over my creedmoor with same barrel length. The 25-284 was/is a super accurate barrel but just spicier enough in the recoil/muzzle blast department that I prefer the creedmoor case.

I think your point about tikka actions and pressure has merit. I’ve never been able to achieve “internet” velocity without sticky extraction. I am generally very close to book data when it exists.

If you really need a specific velocity it may be worthwhile to go up to the 284 case. If you can settle for a little slower, the 25 cm barrels I’ve had all shot excellent and were stupid easy to load for. It’s the easy button if you want to go .257

 

[grizz19]

The 25-284 was super easy to load and work with. When I had that barrel there wasn’t any 25 creedmoor headstamped brass so it was the exact same amount of work (neck down or neck up).

I had only one 25-284 barrel and it may have been slow, but I was only able to squeeze about 3040fps from a 26” tube, without using RL26. Only 100fps over my creedmoor with same barrel length. The 25-284 was/is a super accurate barrel but just spicier enough in the recoil/muzzle blast department that I prefer the creedmoor case.

I think your point about tikka actions and pressure has merit. I’ve never been able to achieve “internet” velocity without sticky extraction. I am generally very close to book data when it exists.

If you really need a specific velocity it may be worthwhile to go up to the 284 case. If you can settle for a little slower, the 25 cm barrels I’ve had all shot excellent and were stupid easy to load for. It’s the easy button if you want to go .257

I really appreciate the info fellas. Just when I thought I had everything figured out… In all honesty I’m not chasing velocity a whole lot, other than I would like to get some good speeds out of a lighter weight mono. As far as a 133, or a 134 I would be happy with a little bit slower speed. As long as Im carrying enough velocity to kill out to 600 yards I’m happy. That’s pretty much the top end of my range so as long as I have 1800 ft./s at that range, I’d be a pretty happy camper. I would also like to hear your opinion about the 133 versus the 134. Have you had better luck with one over the other or prefer one over the other?

 

[nm.otter]

I had only one 25-284 barrel and it may have been slow, but I was only able to squeeze about 3040fps from a 26” tube, without using RL26. Only 100fps over my creedmoor with same barrel length. The 25-284 was/is a super accurate barrel but just spicier enough in the recoil/muzzle blast department that I prefer the creedmoor case.

Usable powder capacity of the 6.5-284 is identical to that of the .25-06, so similar capacity to bore area ratio (and barrel life) as a 6.5/7 PRC or a 7mm Rem Mag.

.25 Creedmoor has a ratio just a touch higher than 6.5 Creedmoor -- about like a .260 Remington.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I would also like to hear your opinion about the 133 versus the 134. Have you had better luck with one over the other or prefer one over the other?

I never shot the 134's but it looks like they have typical ELD-Murder performance with bigger wound channels. The couple deer that rifle took with 133's had typical Berger performance with good damage and a chew can sized exit. Both work fine, in general at moderate distances the Bergers will likely produce a little narrower wound channel with more penetration, the ELD-M will be more destructive and may or may not exit.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I really appreciate the info fellas. Just when I thought I had everything figured out… In all honesty I’m not chasing velocity a whole lot, other than I would like to get some good speeds out of a lighter weight mono. As far as a 133, or a 134 I would be happy with a little bit slower speed. As long as Im carrying enough velocity to kill out to 600 yards I’m happy. That’s pretty much the top end of my range so as long as I have 1800 ft./s at that range, I’d be a pretty happy camper. I would also like to hear your opinion about the 133 versus the 134. Have you had better luck with one over the other or prefer one over the other?

My suppressed 22" Tikka 25-284 with McGowen #3 drives the 134 ELDM at 2825 MV. That's with 54.5 grains of H1000, Lapua brass, and CCI LRP with 3.14" COL. These numbers are pretty similar to @willfrye027 minus 4" of barrel length. This rifle/load is very accurate, consistently shooting 1-1.25 MOA 10 shot groups at 100. Below are 3 consecutive 3 shot groups on the same target without letting the barrel or suppressor cool. I pulled a couple due to mirage, but this rifle just shoots.

Regarding effective range to 600, this load carries 1800 fps a hair over 900.

EDIT: added Berger load data

 

[NV HUNTER]

Where are you guys finding the Berger 133?

 

[grizz19]

I never shot the 134's but it looks like they have typical ELD-Murder performance with bigger wound channels. The couple deer that rifle took with 133's had typical Berger performance with good damage and a chew can sized exit. Both work fine, in general at moderate distances the Bergers will likely produce a little narrower wound channel with more penetration, the ELD-M will be more destructive and may or may not exit.

Awesome I appreciate the info. I basically have never shot lead due to the fact that California came out with the ban only a year or two after I was old enough to chase big game. So I’m trying to do all the research I can, especially going down to a smaller caliber, trying to find a good lead bullet that will give me the best performance. Have you ever had an issue with the Berger not opening quickly enough when not hitting bone?

My suppressed 22" Tikka 25-284 with McGowen #3 drives the 134 ELDM at 2825 MV. That's with 54.5 grains of H1000, Lapua brass, and CCI LRP with 3.14" COL. These numbers are pretty similar to @willfrye027 minus 4" of barrel length. This rifle/load is very accurate, consistently shooting 1-1.25 MOA 10 shot groups at 100. Below are 3 consecutive 3 shot groups on the same target without letting the barrel or suppressor cool. I pulled a couple due to mirage, but this rifle just shoots.

Regarding effective range to 600, this load carries 1800 fps a hair over 900.

EDIT: added Berger load data

That thing is a shooter, I would love of my rifle will shoot like that when I get it.

900 is a good poke. Rough number pushing it around 2700 at sea level I think I’d have 1800 at about 650. Everything I hunt is basically above 3000ft so I think I should be good there to that 2700 mark.

 

[Bluefish]

My suppressed 22" Tikka 25-284 with McGowen #3 drives the 134 ELDM at 2825 MV. That's with 54.5 grains of H1000, Lapua brass, and CCI LRP with 3.14" COL. These numbers are pretty similar to @willfrye027 minus 4" of barrel length. This rifle/load is very accurate, consistently shooting 1-1.25 MOA 10 shot groups at 100. Below are 3 consecutive 3 shot groups on the same target without letting the barrel or suppressor cool. I pulled a couple due to mirage, but this rifle just shoots.

Regarding effective range to 600, this load carries 1800 fps a hair over 900.

EDIT: added Berger load data

I got similar velocity from my 22” 25 6.5 prc in the 54-55g of h1000 with Hornady brass. I have heard people run up to 60g, I stopped at 56.5 as I hit my target of 2950. I also have a 22” 25-06 that will push a 80g ttsx to 3500+ with 60g of 4831sc. It’s even a bit slow, I think due to twist (7.5) for Barnes data. They claim 3800+ with hybrid 100v. Pretty sure even the 80g at 2k+ will take a deer, which is 575 yards or better.

 

[willfrye027]

I really appreciate the info fellas. Just when I thought I had everything figured out… In all honesty I’m not chasing velocity a whole lot, other than I would like to get some good speeds out of a lighter weight mono. As far as a 133, or a 134 I would be happy with a little bit slower speed. As long as Im carrying enough velocity to kill out to 600 yards I’m happy. That’s pretty much the top end of my range so as long as I have 1800 ft./s at that range, I’d be a pretty happy camper. I would also like to hear your opinion about the 133 versus the 134. Have you had better luck with one over the other or prefer one over the other?

I never shot the 133s…shot the 135s for a couple seasons and killed around a dozen big game animals pronghorn, deer, and an elk. Cousin and uncle are still using it, pretty typical Berger performance and everything has died. I did have a couple question mark results at lower impact velocity around 2200fps. Small wound channels and follow up shots needed. The 133s might be better in that regard.

The 134s have been awesome. Have about a dozen kills with them, deer and elk. They start opening up sooner than the bergers and put a massive hole through the vitals. Worth the slight BC penalty for what I would call perfect terminal performance in the 134s.

How much of this gun is going to be dedicated to monos? If you’re in CA like me and can’t have a suppressor..why not go a little longer barrel length? Getting a mono to work well at 600 is a pretty tall order IMO.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I got similar velocity from my 22” 25 6.5 prc in the 54-55g of h1000 with Hornady brass. I have heard people run up to 60g, I stopped at 56.5 as I hit my target of 2950. I also have a 22” 25-06 that will push a 80g ttsx to 3500+ with 60g of 4831sc. It’s even a bit slow, I think due to twist (7.5) for Barnes data. They claim 3800+ with hybrid 100v. Pretty sure even the 80g at 2k+ will take a deer, which is 575 yards or better.

Roger that, and if a guy truly wants a a fast 25 in a shorter barrel (18-20"), with the 130 class bullets, you have to step it up to 25WSM, 25SST, 25/7PRC, or the old standby 257WBY. The 25/6.8 Western and 25 Mega are also options, but I don't know much about them.

Because I didn't hit my 25-284 goal of 3k MV with the 134 in a 22", I may go the other direction and cut it down to 18" and shoot the 110 ELDX or 115 NBT around 3k MV. Those number are very close to the 6-284 with the 108 ELDM, and at 500 yards the velocity, drop, and windage between the two are essentially a tie with 52 grains of N550.

I just love the handling of my daughter's suppressed 18" 7-08, and we all know by now that light bullets kill admirably when driven fast.

 

[grizz19]

I never shot the 133s…shot the 135s for a couple seasons and killed around a dozen big game animals pronghorn, deer, and an elk. Cousin and uncle are still using it, pretty typical Berger performance and everything has died. I did have a couple question mark results at lower impact velocity around 2200fps. Small wound channels and follow up shots needed. The 133s might be better in that regard.

The 134s have been awesome. Have about a dozen kills with them, deer and elk. They start opening up sooner than the bergers and put a massive hole through the vitals. Worth the slight BC penalty for what I would call perfect terminal performance in the 134s.

How much of this gun is going to be dedicated to monos? If you’re in CA like me and can’t have a suppressor..why not go a little longer barrel length? Getting a mono to work well at 600 is a pretty tall order IMO.

I’ve thought pretty hard about that. One day I’d still like to move out of state. If that actual happens out not who knows? If it does the first thing I would do when I finished unloading my boxes is order a suppressor. So I kind of want it suppressor ready incase that day ever comes. 600 out of a 22in barrel with a mono is definitely a tall task. I may have to shorten that range depending on the bullet and what speeds I’m getting. For the most part I usually only have one deer hunt a year here locally along with quite a few hogs. But the hogs are usually all sub 300 if not sub 200 yards. How much speed am I really losing out this 2 inches? From what I have seen in some of the PRC’s, they are not losing a ton of speed by shortening the barrel, but I am unfamiliar with how much is affected in the Creedmoor.

 

[grizz19]

Roger that, and if a guy truly wants a a fast 25 in a shorter barrel (18-20"), with the 130 class bullets, you have to step it up to 25WSM, 25SST, 25/7PRC, or the old standby 257WBY. The 25/6.8 Western and 25 Mega are also options, but I don't know much about them.

Because I didn't hit my 25-284 goal of 3k MV with the 134 in a 22", I may go the other direction and cut it down to 18" and shoot the 110 ELDX or 115 NBT around 3k MV. Those number are very close to the 6-284 with the 108 ELDM, and at 500 yards the velocity, drop, and windage between the two are essentially a tie with 52 grains of N550.

I just love the handling of my daughter's suppressed 18" 7-08, and we all know by now that light bullets kill admirably when driven fast.

I had actually considered that 110 ELDX if I cannot get the speed I wanted out of the 130 class Bullets. I have not read up on them as much though to see how guys like them.