.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[crazygrizz]

Think more along the lines of what’s the force on the bullet jacket needed to rupture and expand.

If it's taken further imagine we had a 60gr bullet that ruptures at 600 fps. Would that still be an effective killer? It bullets get to that level we might be arguing over minimum bullet weights for enough material to even work. Or we start shooting lasers and arguing over batteries/capacitors/etc.

 

[43.6N]

If it's taken further imagine we had a 60gr bullet that ruptures at 600 fps. Would that still be an effective killer? It bullets get to that level we might be arguing over minimum bullet weights for enough material to even work. Or we start shooting lasers and arguing over batteries/capacitors/etc.

40gr Vmax seems to get it done on coyotes.

But yeah, if it’s in the heart, or disrupts the autonomic plexus really small mass bullets realistically should get it done.

I think the number of bullets though that are built to correctly do this shrinks dramatically as you go down in weight.

 

[Taudisio]

If it's taken further imagine we had a 60gr bullet that ruptures at 600 fps. Would that still be an effective killer? It bullets get to that level we might be arguing over minimum bullet weights for enough material to even work. Or we start shooting lasers and arguing over batteries/capacitors/etc.

It would depend on what the wound channel looks like at a given velocity. IMO the ideal wound channel looks like a football. Enters, expands to disrupt the football pattern, and what is left of the bullet falls out of the other side of my intended target.

You can have a bullet that does just such thing around 1800-3000fps, but below 1800fps, it may not consistently expand, thus not giving the football shape. Above 3000 it may expand too much and not penetrate deep enough to exit the far side of the animal. There are bullets that you can push the velocity scale to one side or another and still get desired results. Also, this doesn’t mean the bullet won’t kill outside of those parameters, it just may not be ideal.

Using your hypothetical of 600fps, and if that velocity it gives my hypothetical perfect expansion, I would need to figure out what velocity would be too slow, and what velocity would be too fast to give me the wound channel I want to see. This would let me know what MV I would need to achieve the impact velocity I need at the given ranges I plan to be shooting at game. The MV needed will dictate the cartridge and barrel length I will need.

Physics and the bullet material/design options we have, won’t allow us to have something that works from 500fps-5000fps. If there were such an option and it was, reasonably priced, accurate in common rifles, and had a high enough bc (we will say g1 of at least .350), it would be silly to use anything else.

 

[Thegman]

If it's taken further imagine we had a 60gr bullet that ruptures at 600 fps. Would that still be an effective killer? It bullets get to that level we might be arguing over minimum bullet weights for enough material to even work. Or we start shooting lasers and arguing over batteries/capacitors/etc.

Maker Bullets make Sub-sonic expanding mono 223 bullets, so I'm sure they'd "make it through the hide" part, but doubt any would be reliable deer killers...but maybe? I've never heard any reports from anyone that has actually used them.

 

[omicron1792]

Maker Bullets make Sub-sonic expanding mono 223 bullets, so I'm sure they'd "make it through the hide" part, but doubt any would be reliable deer killers...but maybe? I've never heard any reports from anyone that has actually used them.

Makers are the best subsonic bullets I have found. Never used them in 223, my guess is they would just do ok. But in larger calibers they expand and look like a broadhead coming out the other side.

 

[Ranger 692]

Daughter shot her first buck this fall with a chopped Tikka .223, 77tmk handload at 100 yards. Blew through ribs on both sides, lungs were absolute goo. I was amazed at the damage that little bullet did. Buck ran 100’ and flopped over.

 

[6creed]

#2 kill for my RSS this morning. My nephew shot this cow elk at 407 yards. Single shot mid ribs. Perforated both lung, passed though ribs on both sides. I couldn't find the bullet because we only gutted it. The butcher will find it in the offside hide. I have yet to kill with the rifle because I shot my bull elk during the archery season this year, but this rifle is my favorite rifle I have ever owned. Set the rifle up in July this year and have fired over 600 rounds so far. Load was 77 TMK with 25 grains of Staball Match and starline brass. I was getting decent groups with XBR, but the staball match really tightened my groups. 2750 fps muzzle velocity,approximately 2100 fps impact velocity.

 

[6creed]

Only five rounds but this was my zero check yesterday before the hunt this morning.