.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Choupique]

That’s monos my man

I thought that was the chief issue with regular hollow point match bullets?

 

[LimeSpoon]

I thought that was the chief issue with regular hollow point match bullets?

Yes, it is.

It’s the difference between yaw-initiated fragmentation (standard OTMs) and hydraulic expansion. TMKs expand largely in the same manner as any other hollowpoint.

The tip has less to do with it than the greatly enlarged hollowpoint cavity under the tip.

There’s still variation in the consistency of different kinds of expanding bullets, but with rifle rounds at high velocities, expansion is almost universally a more reliable upset mechanism than yaw.

 

[BLJ]

And while I put together a tack driver of a 22 Arc this year, because the ballistics look so great on paper, I have yet to hunt with it.

If you do decide to hunt with it, I can recommend the 75 ELDM.
I’m my experience they run about 40 yards.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

If you do decide to hunt with it, I can recommend the 75 ELDM.
I’m my experience they run about 40 yards.

View attachment 975865

What’s the sample size?

 

[BLJ]

First one specifically with the 22ARC/75ELDM.

5th eastern whitetail with 22 caliber match bullets from 73 to 77 grains.
All very similar impact velocity.
Around 2655 FPS on the top end and 2200 on the low end.

10-40 yard run after the shot.
The post above was all lungs and no heart. Best blood trail yet.
I’ve got exits from all 5.
I’m the crease behind the shoulder.

 

[wirehead]

Anyone out there shot deer, etc with both the 60 gr partition and the heavier ELDM / TMKs? Interested in / hoping for first hand comparison of the two re: impact on game.

 

[FredH]

That’s monos my man

One of the rifles in my rotation is a 308 pushing a 110 gr. CX at 3190 fps. That bullet being designed for the 300 Blackout will not pencil. Some mono's nowadays open quite quickly.

 

[FredH]

I thought that was the chief issue with regular hollow point match bullets?

The other issue is the hpbt bullets tend not to penetrate in a straight line.

 

[Chris in TN]

Good point. Lung shooting deer would probably work with that too, but probably not with the best recovery rate, I imagine.

just as a data point - years ago I found a wounded fawn and finished it off and skinned it out to figure out why it died.

..22lr through the rear of the lungs. Some expansion. Couldn’t tell whether RN or HP projectile. Probably a hollowpoint. But either way the damage was enough to ensure its death but not to leave a trail to follow nor make it die quickly.

I don’t know how long it has been shot, only that it was bedded near where I parked that afternoon, it could stand up but not run. It was obviously in distress. I shot it in the noggin with my CCW at contact distance to finish it off.

Would a more centered lung hit have been fatal faster? I’m sure, but it’s far below my threshold for comfortable killing.

Of course this example has no negative bearing on the effectiveness of centerfire .22s. It just suggests that, yeah, there’s a floor.

 

[Pharmseller]

If you do decide to hunt with it, I can recommend the 75 ELDM.
I’m my experience they run about 40 yards.

View attachment 975865

IME they drop straight down.

What’s the sample size?

Three

 

[BLJ]

I’ve never had one just drop. Always have a death run shooting them in the crease (heart and lungs).
IME.

 

[FredH]

Where I usually hit them a short run is usually what happens. I use the smaller cartridges for meat hunting and broadside ribcage hits are what I like. On the other hand if I need a deer to drop I do neck or high shoulder shots which with soft bullets destroy a lot of meat.

 

[Jermh]

#3 and 4 for the year with the 223 Tikka and factory 73 ELDM. Probably nothing that useful in the way of data. Sub-100 yards so both neck shots and DRT with very large holes. Really happy with the 223 so far, it's just enjoyable to shoot.

 

[lyle_destroys]

#3 and 4 for the year with the 223 Tikka and factory 73 ELDM. Probably nothing that useful in the way of data. Sub-100 yards so both neck shots and DRT with very large holes. Really happy with the 223 so far, it's just enjoyable to shoot.

Spin a suppressor on that rifle and it’s really going to blow your mind. I couldn’t be happier, deer aren’t stirred up, ears aren’t ringing, I can hear and see the impact in the scope.

 

[Kaleb]

With a large sample size I believe dropped versus death dash is mostly shot placement and or wound channel direction. Trying to say if you aim and hit the fall down parts they fall down. Also trying to say sometimes you hit the same place on two separate deer but for one reason or the other the wound channel can be slightly different.

Most recent example would be my daughter's two deer. The shots were more alike than different but one messed up the spine. Mayne it was bullet fragments maybe bone fragments maybe both? I'll not claim to know that. With basically the same shot placement and same bullet the other doe bolted a couple few seconds. We could hear her crash as soon as she went into the woods. I hate to misspeak and I sure didn't measure but maybe 30-40 yard run?

In the summer on crop damage permits I shoot shoulders and they drop. During the season I/we aim for lungs because we like the shoulders for roast. This is not just for 22 calibers but since it's the 223 thread it is what I'm referring to.

 

[Luke S]

Sorry if it's been answered but the search function was no help...

Do 88 gr ELDMs give more reliable exits on black bears (or deer similar size since our bears are sub 350 lbs 99% of the time). Yes I know the 77 TMK kills well but the pattern I see makes me think we'd have minimal blood trails. Fine if the bear dies within 40 yards where you can hear it drop. Not so great if it's a sub optimal hit and they go farther. Yes I know practicing a lot balances that out... I'm taking kids hunting and they don't always have the steadiest nervous 40 yards from a bear no matter how much practice they have (and they aren't my kids so I can't necessarily have them do the kind of practice a lot of folks here get).

So I want a blood trail if possible. If 88s work I might load a batch. If not, we'll keep using the suppressed 308 or 6.5 Grendal.

 

[deer_hunter132]

Sorry if it's been answered but the search function was no help...

Do 88 gr ELDMs give more reliable exits on black bears (or deer similar size since our bears are sub 350 lbs 99% of the time). Yes I know the 77 TMK kills well but the pattern I see makes me think we'd have minimal blood trails. Fine if the bear dies within 40 yards where you can hear it drop. Not so great if it's a sub optimal hit and they go farther. Yes I know practicing a lot balances that out... I'm taking kids hunting and they don't always have the steadiest nervous 40 yards from a bear no matter how much practice they have (and they aren't my kids so I can't necessarily have them do the kind of practice a lot of folks here get).

So I want a blood trail if possible. If 88s work I might load a batch. If not, we'll keep using the suppressed 308 or 6.5 Grendal.

Post in thread 'The 22UM'

Dec 28, 2023

Do you have any other info on this bullet how closely it’s related to the 88 and 80 eldm, along with the 77tmk?

Not enough to say definitively yet. It does have a slightly thicker jacket than the ELD-M’s.

Curious why you would go down this road when the 88 eldm is available.

Experimentation, and the slightly thicker jacket should help with excessive RPM’s. And, I am not completely satisfied with the type of wound channel of the 88gr. Don’t take that too negatively.

• Formidilosus

• 

Post in thread 'The 22 creedmoor thread'

Sep 14, 2025

I just don't want to admit that but I think I need to move on from 88's in my new 22 Creed. Tried 4350, Retumbo and H1000. Was going for N565 next but I guess I'll just load up some 80's and 77 TMK's.

My thoughts are to stick with H1000 to get better case fill and potentially extend barrel life with the cooler powder vs H4350...

They are often disappointing.

• Formidilosus

Post in thread 'The 22 creedmoor thread'

Nov 16, 2025

The only thing I questioned was the minimal damage on neck shot. Has anyone else seen similar performance from the 75 ELDM?

It’s not just the 75gr- quite a few ELD-M models will every once in a while show less upset than expected or normal. Not all that frequently- maybe 1 out 30 or so. I’ve never seen a true “pencil- I.E., caliber size or smaller all the way through; but 3/4 of an inch to 1 inch wounds- yes. The .224 88’s and 147gr 6.5’s do it more often than others that I’ve seen.

• Formidilosus

• 
• 

Post in thread '88 ELD-Ms'

Nov 24, 2024

Didn't realize that was the case. I know the 77 TMKs are the most consistent, but putting them aside if one were looking for a higher bc, would the 80 ELD-M be the most consistent, over the 88?

I don’t want to make it seem like the 88’s aren’t good- they kill. It’s just that I prefer others. The 77gr TMK of course, and so far the 80gr ELD-X seems to be good as well.

• Formidilosus

• 

 

[wind gypsy]

Sorry if it's been answered but the search function was no help...

Do 88 gr ELDMs give more reliable exits on black bears (or deer similar size since our bears are sub 350 lbs 99% of the time). Yes I know the 77 TMK kills well but the pattern I see makes me think we'd have minimal blood trails. Fine if the bear dies within 40 yards where you can hear it drop. Not so great if it's a sub optimal hit and they go farther. Yes I know practicing a lot balances that out... I'm taking kids hunting and they don't always have the steadiest nervous 40 yards from a bear no matter how much practice they have (and they aren't my kids so I can't necessarily have them do the kind of practice a lot of folks here get).

So I want a blood trail if possible. If 88s work I might load a batch. If not, we'll keep using the suppressed 308 or 6.5 Grendal.

The 106/108/109 ELD don’t seem to reliably exit so I don’t know why 88s would. Hell 175 (7mm) and 200 gr eldx don’t either in my small sample size.

 

[Gettincloser]

This past weekend, my wife took her 1st turkey with the Tikka 223, Unknown Stock, Maven scope and 77gr TMK... that bird didn't stand a chance. Aside from it being a monster (11.5" beard!) The real trophy was that both of our daughters (ages 2 and 5) were with us! They loved it.

20 minutes later she shot a hog "in the shoulder" with the same setup but sadly, we did not recover that 80# piece of bacon. When she hit it. It did the arched back hop/skip. I also noted that the end of her barrel was a bit "shakey" and kept reminding her to breathe... since it was not recovered, hard to say where she hit. I will say, I believe it to have been a bit back... apparently, it is still important to hit the vitals... Who knew! (At least that is my assumption based on what I saw.)

I then dropped a really cool 4 point (2x2) with a 15.5" spread. No drama... just bang - flop. Impact at 120 yds quartered to and hit just behind the point of the shoulder and the bullet wrecked everything from inside lung to the stomach... bullet not recovered.

 

[Luke S]

Wind Gypsy maybe it's good I don't have a 6mm either if those are the bullets you mean. For reference we have shot a lot of stuff with a couple 308s and we get exits on pretty much any ethical shot and enough blood to find bears in thick brush. The pattern here with 223s seems to be less exits, less blood quick kills if the shot is good. The only thing "wrong" with our system is the 308 recoils a bit more than I'd prefer for kids and it's pricey to shoot.