.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

No disagreement with anything else, but I think this might not be true as a blanket statement if you factor in longer ranges. The 6CM shooting 108/115's will have a distinguishable ballistic advantage over a SAAMI 223 shooting 88's.
At the far fringes of range, sure. A glance at 6 creed factory ammo (I don’t have a 6 creed, so no actual numbers of my own to plug in) in JBM shows me it’ll carry an extra 30m of distance to an 1800fps impact over my 223AI’s.

But yeah, you gain some at the edges for sure.
 
Theyre fine with 5.56 pressure at 5.56 nominal pressures. They're fine with. 300 win mag at nominal .300 win mag pressure, which is higher and due to the case size exerting much more force on the frame and bolt face. A 5.56 in a .223 chamber can theoretically generate much higher than nominal if all the tolerances stack up wrong, which is probably what's happening with OPs rifle.

I wouldn't worry about the action on any modern production rifle short of having a barrel stuffed with mud.
Agreed. Might pop a primer or some such, but not likely destroying a 223 bolt rifle with a 5.56 round.
 
At the far fringes of range, sure. A glance at 6 creed factory ammo (I don’t have a 6 creed, so no actual numbers of my own to plug in) in JBM shows me it’ll carry an extra 30m of distance to an 1800fps impact over my 223AI’s.

But yeah, you gain some at the edges for sure.
Not to mention, at those far fringe ranges, the number of folks capable of “shooting the difference” to gain the “advantages ” of the higher BC, or even properly calling the wind to take advantage are incredibly slim.
 
At the far fringes of range, sure. A glance at 6 creed factory ammo (I don’t have a 6 creed, so no actual numbers of my own to plug in) in JBM shows me it’ll carry an extra 30m of distance to an 1800fps impact over my 223AI’s.

But yeah, you gain some at the edges for sure.
What velocity & barrel length do you have? I've been considering this same thing
 
I mistakenly shot two boxes of Frontier 556 68 gr in my 223. So far no problems. I will not be doing it again. I did notice the bolt was sticky when I was ejecting the empties.
 
Not to mention, at those far fringe ranges, the number of folks capable of “shooting the difference” to gain the “advantages ” of the higher BC, or even properly calling the wind to take advantage are incredibly slim.
I don’t think this gets enough consideration by most people trying to split the difference between cartridges/calibers
Seems most look at the numbers on a ballistic chart and then assume they are capable of taking advantage of those differences. When in reality it’s much harder to do when taking shots on those far fringe ranges. At least consistently or on demand.
 
At the far fringes of range, sure. A glance at 6 creed factory ammo (I don’t have a 6 creed, so no actual numbers of my own to plug in) in JBM shows me it’ll carry an extra 30m of distance to an 1800fps impact over my 223AI’s.

But yeah, you gain some at the edges for sure.
How fast is your 223AI with the 88? When comparing my 22 ARC with the 88 ELDM (factory Hornady ammo @ 2698 fps) to my 6CM with the 105 Berger (factory Federal GMM @ 2893 fps, which is the most accurate load in my rifle) you get 150 yards further with the 6CM to 1800. When the 88 is compared to the 108 ELDM (factory Hornady ammo @ 2838 fps, second most accurate round in my rifle) you get 90+ yards further with the 108 ELDM over the 88 ELDM. These are both 22" barreled rifles suppressed.

Unless your 223AI is pushing the 88s faster than the 22 ARC, there is quite a bit of performance gained by the 6CM.

Jay
 
How fast is your 223AI with the 88? When comparing my 22 ARC with the 88 ELDM (factory Hornady ammo @ 2698 fps) to my 6CM with the 105 Berger (factory Federal GMM @ 2893 fps, which is the most accurate load in my rifle) you get 150 yards further with the 6CM to 1800. When the 88 is compared to the 108 ELDM (factory Hornady ammo @ 2838 fps, second most accurate round in my rifle) you get 90+ yards further with the 108 ELDM over the 88 ELDM. These are both 22" barreled rifles suppressed.

Unless your 223AI is pushing the 88s faster than the 22 ARC, there is quite a bit of performance gained by the 6CM.

Jay

Why would a case with same capacity shoot a heavier bullet faster? Are you sure it’s not just a case of your 22 ARC has a slower barrel?
 
Seems most look at the numbers on a ballistic chart and then assume they are capable of taking advantage of those differences

Just going by the ballistic charts, we oughta all be shooting a 338 norma or 408 cheytac or 50 bmg or something.

Lots of wallop, lots of kaboom, lots of carnage, can be used for indirect fire with a good enough spotter!
 
Why would a case with same capacity shoot a heavier bullet faster? Are you sure it’s not just a case of your 22 ARC has a slower barrel?
From my understanding, the 22 ARC has 4 to 5 grains greater case capacity at 34 grains vs 29 to 30 depending on what brand case the 223AI is made from. Not arguing, just curious since using those numbers the 22 ARC has 13 to 15 percent more case capacity.

Jay
 
From my understanding, the 22 ARC has 4 to 5 grains greater case capacity at 34 grains vs 29 to 30 depending on what brand case the 223AI is made from. Not arguing, just curious since using those numbers the 22 ARC has 13 to 15 percent more case capacity.

Jay

Yeah, that’s what I am asking. Why is the 88gr 22 ARC slower than the 6 ARC out of your two guns? If the 22 ARC has additional case capacity and a lighter bullet, it should go faster than the 6 ARC.

Maybe Hornady powder is a dog? People complain about Hornady’s velocity of 7mm PRC pretty frequently.
 
From my understanding, the 22 ARC has 4 to 5 grains greater case capacity at 34 grains vs 29 to 30 depending on what brand case the 223AI is made from. Not arguing, just curious since using those numbers the 22 ARC has 13 to 15 percent more case capacity.

Jay
I agree with above. Your 22arc sounds slow.

2820 on factory ammo on box from 24”. You should be being 2770, which would make your numbers much less drastic.
 
I agree with above. Your 22arc sounds slow.

2820 on factory ammo on box from 24”. You should be being 2770, which would make your numbers much less drastic.
I've never seen factory ammo (especially Hornady) match the box speeds. It is always 50 to 150 fps slower with the same length test barrel. I've had different lots of the same ammo vary over 100 fps between lots. Since there is no factory ammo for the 223AI, the 22 ARC is all I have to check against using that same bullet. If you want to just use box speeds, the 6CM 105 box speed is 3050 fps so it still carries the same velocity differential as my rifles show. I don't think my 22 ARC is slow since with the 80 ELDX the box speed is 3010 fps and my crono speed is 2945 fps on one lot and 2905 on another lot. I just bought another case of 22 ARC 88 ELDM and I hope this lot is faster than the first lot.

Jay
 
I've never seen factory ammo (especially Hornady) match the box speeds. It is always 50 to 150 fps slower with the same length test barrel. I've had different lots of the same ammo vary over 100 fps between lots. Since there is no factory ammo for the 223AI, the 22 ARC is all I have to check against using that same bullet. If you want to just use box speeds, the 6CM 105 box speed is 3050 fps so it still carries the same velocity differential as my rifles show. I don't think my 22 ARC is slow since with the 80 ELDX the box speed is 3010 fps and my crono speed is 2945 fps on one lot and 2905 on another lot. I just bought another case of 22 ARC 88 ELDM and I hope this lot is faster than the first lot.

Jay
I see. I think the 88 is the heavy for 22 arc, and 105 isn’t for 6cr. Maybe comparing to the 108 is more apples to apples.

That said, I don’t find the 22arc to have enough of a jump over 223 for the juice to be worth squeeze. Unless you are just dead set on using the 88 instead of the 77tmk.
 
At the far fringes of range, sure. A glance at 6 creed factory ammo (I don’t have a 6 creed, so no actual numbers of my own to plug in) in JBM shows me it’ll carry an extra 30m of distance to an 1800fps impact over my 223AI’s.

But yeah, you gain some at the edges for sure.

Id imagine a 6 creed can push a 109 ELDm faster than a 223AI pushes a 88 at similar barrel lengths/pressures. So higher BC bullet pushed faster and if the 109 doesn't work there are other suitable alternatives where as there's not really anything else in the 88ELDm realm if a barrel shoots them poorly.
 
From my understanding, the 22 ARC has 4 to 5 grains greater case capacity at 34 grains vs 29 to 30 depending on what brand case the 223AI is made from. Not arguing, just curious since using those numbers the 22 ARC has 13 to 15 percent more case capacity.

Jay

Looks like 29-30 gr is more aligned with straight 223 capacity and 223AI splits the difference between 223 and 22 ARC. Screenshot taken from accurate shooter.
1751037098822.png
 
I see. I think the 88 is the heavy for 22 arc, and 105 isn’t for 6cr. Maybe comparing to the 108 is more apples to apples.

That said, I don’t find the 22arc to have enough of a jump over 223 for the juice to be worth squeeze. Unless you are just dead set on using the 88 instead of the 77tmk.
The 22 ARC will give you 200 to 300 fps more velocity with the same bullet class over the standard 223. I understand that it isn't the same bullet but when you compare my fastest 223 and 77tmk combo (2758 fps) and my wife's 22 ARC with the 75 ELDM (2995 fps) you gain 205 yards to 1800 fps with 600 yards with the 77tmk and 805 with the 75 ELDM at my current conditions. It isn't same for same due to different bullets but does gives a general idea of what the potential difference would be. I'm sure that a good load with the 77tmk in the 22 ARC would be 250 fps faster than the 223. The 22 ARC with a 77tmk at 3000 fps would hit 1800 at 725 and gives a +125 yards over the 223 with the same bullet. To me, that's worth the squeeze since you're not wildcatted and using factory brass.

Jay

Edited to add that as per the original thing I posted, the 6CM will get you 200 to 300 yards additional terminal velocity over the standard 223 but for most people, that additional distance will never be usable as their skill level doesn't allow them to remain on target at those longer distances.
 
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