.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[FredH]

I ordered some of those. Need to see why they never came.

 

[bojangles808]

boar shot at 175 with RSS and TMKs. 2460 estimated impact velocity
shot him out of his bed under a tree, entrance was front shoulder/neck. rolled over and died pretty much drt

 

[justinspicher]

boar shot at 175 with RSS and TMKs. 2460 estimated impact velocity
shot him out of his bed under a tree, entrance was front shoulder/neck. rolled over and died pretty much drt
View attachment 897395

This is more dope than marijuana.

 

[Deere_Man]

This is more dope than marijuana.

 

[drucker]

^all of these. The 73gr or any of the ELD-M Hornady Match would be what I'd look for but there's an incredible amount of options for the 55gr stuff, too many to even list. If you want to avoid meat damage might could shoot something bonded at them like a Federal Fusion on the cheap, we just use our Gold Dots for hogs for example. Try some different types of ammo to see what your rifle shoots best.

If he is hunting Roe deer, he is likely not in North America, so the availability of those recommendations is probably very limited.

Correct, I'm in Europe and availability of factory hunting approved ammo (needs to be an expanding bullet) has been very limited apart from that Hornady Critical defense 55gr. However I just saw that they have started selling the Federal Fusion SP 62gr so I might try that instead then. Thanks guys.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Correct, I'm in Europe and availability of factory hunting approved ammo (needs to be an expanding bullet) has been very limited apart from that Hornady Critical defense 55gr. However I just saw that they have started selling the Federal Fusion SP 62gr so I might try that instead then. Thanks guys.

Fusion will definitely get the job done, hopefully it shoots well in your rifle.

 

[Bluumoon]

I just tried the Bone Frog 77 TMK 5.56 ammo in a Weatherby 307 223 and I blew primers in the first two rounds. Velocity was almost 2900 fps out of a 20 in barrel. Damaged my firing pin though. I will be trying them in my AR 15 5.56, but they are spicy with soft primers. I am getting 2760 ish out my handloaded 77 tmk loads with 23.3 grains of XBR and starline brass.

Have you shot .556 out of that rifle? That is drastically different than what I’ve seen from the first few boxes (I would assume same lot as it just came out). I wouldn’t hesitate to call the owner of Bone Frog, very approachable guy.

Edit, just looked and don’t see lot #s on boxes.

 

[Badlandoutdoors]

As I've been reading and trying to keep up with the 546 pages, I apologize if this question has been asked. What I am understanding and listening to some of the shoot 2 hunt stuff is that the low recoil of a .223 and the ability to put down follow up shots is one of the big advantages of smaller cartridges. @Formidilosus would shooting say a 6 Creedmoor over a .223 with a tmk or other similar match style bullet have its advantages in a hunting situation over a .223? I would assume yes in that you are shooting a slightly heavier bullet, say a 77tmk vs a 108 eldm. What I'm trying to understand is at what point does the recoil increase become a disadvantage over shooting a heaver grain projectile if they are both match style bullets for hunting? Obviously shooting a magnum has much more recoil, but I'm trying to think along the lines of lower recoiling cartridges.

 

[General RE LEE]

I’ve considered a .223 bolt trainer/hunting rifle, but I love my Howa Mini 6 ARC.

 

[omicron1792]

As I've been reading and trying to keep up with the 546 pages, I apologize if this question has been asked. What I am understanding and listening to some of the shoot 2 hunt stuff is that the low recoil of a .223 and the ability to put down follow up shots is one of the big advantages of smaller cartridges. @Formidilosus would shooting say a 6 Creedmoor over a .223 with a tmk or other similar match style bullet have its advantages in a hunting situation over a .223? I would assume yes in that you are shooting a slightly heavier bullet, say a 77tmk vs a 108 eldm. What I'm trying to understand is at what point does the recoil increase become a disadvantage over shooting a heaver grain projectile if they are both match style bullets for hunting? Obviously shooting a magnum has much more recoil, but I'm trying to think along the lines of lower recoiling cartridges.

If a 77TMK from 223 kills well, what would be the benefit of a “heavier bullet?”

If you plan to hunt a state that had a required minimum, get a 6 arc/creedmoor. Otherwise, the 223 does all you need it to do.

 

[atmat]

As I've been reading and trying to keep up with the 546 pages, I apologize if this question has been asked. What I am understanding and listening to some of the shoot 2 hunt stuff is that the low recoil of a .223 and the ability to put down follow up shots is one of the big advantages of smaller cartridges. @Formidilosus would shooting say a 6 Creedmoor over a .223 with a tmk or other similar match style bullet have its advantages in a hunting situation over a .223? I would assume yes in that you are shooting a slightly heavier bullet, say a 77tmk vs a 108 eldm. What I'm trying to understand is at what point does the recoil increase become a disadvantage over shooting a heaver grain projectile if they are both match style bullets for hunting? Obviously shooting a magnum has much more recoil, but I'm trying to think along the lines of lower recoiling cartridges.

I will say I primarily shoot both a 223 and a 6creed. And while the 6creed is by no means heavy recoiling, I do notice a difference which is exacerbated with volume shooting.

If I lived in a state allowing 223 to hunt, I’d use it over a 6creed.

 

[6creed]

Have you shot .556 out of that rifle? That is drastically different than what I’ve seen from the first few boxes (I would assume same lot as it just came out). I wouldn’t hesitate to call the owner of Bone Frog, very approachable guy.

Edit, just looked and don’t see lot #s on boxes.

I have shot XM193 5.56 ammo and it was fine. Bone Frog has a disclaimer about not using thier 5.56 in a 223. I thought it would be no different especially because I am loading my handload about .040 longer with the TMK.

 

[Bluumoon]

I have shot XM193 5.56 ammo and it was fine. Bone Frog has a disclaimer about not using thier 5.56 in a 223. I thought it would be no different especially because I am loading my handload about .040 longer with the TMK.

My sample is avg 2640 fps (18”), 20” is guess would be around 2700fps.

I had some Norma 77 gr that was blowing primers and bolt shrouds, shot good though

 

[Ajsomp]

I have shot XM193 5.56 ammo and it was fine. Bone Frog has a disclaimer about not using thier 5.56 in a 223. I thought it would be no different especially because I am loading my handload about .040 longer with the TMK.

223 CIP pressures are roughly the same as 5.56 SAAMI, which is why guys normally shoot no issue through tikkas (as they are using CIP pressures). But I’m not sure about the weatherby (obviously it was a little spicy in your case)

 

[Bluumoon]

I have shot XM193 5.56 ammo and it was fine. Bone Frog has a disclaimer about not using thier 5.56 in a 223. I thought it would be no different especially because I am loading my handload about .040 longer with the TMK.

I’ll pull out some random rounds from different boxes when I’m done w the Cold Bore Challenge. Will measure COAL and shoot past chrono.

 

[Choupique]

223 CIP pressures are roughly the same as 5.56 SAAMI, which is why guys normally shoot no issue through tikkas (as they are using CIP pressures)

The "issue" is that the chamber and throat dimensions are not the same between the two cartridges. I havent looked in a while but I think the .223 minimum leade is shorter which could drive higher chamber pressures for a 5.56 round in a .223 chamber.

 

[Thegman]

The "issue" is that the chamber and throat dimensions are not the same between the two cartridges. I havent looked in a while but I think the .223 minimum leade is shorter which could drive higher chamber pressures for a 5.56 round in a .223 chamber.

That's true, in general, but my Tikka 223 leade seems to be cut more like a 5.56 leade. It seems to be just as long as my various AR 5.56 barrel leades. Not sure how other 223 rifle leades are cut or if that's common in Tikkas in general. But if Tikkas are "fine" with 5.56 pressure loads, that might be one of the reasons.

 

[Choupique]

But if Tikkas are "fine" with 5.56 pressure loads, that might be one of the reasons.

Theyre fine with 5.56 pressure at 5.56 nominal pressures. They're fine with. 300 win mag at nominal .300 win mag pressure, which is higher and due to the case size exerting much more force on the frame and bolt face. A 5.56 in a .223 chamber can theoretically generate much higher than nominal if all the tolerances stack up wrong, which is probably what's happening with OPs rifle.

I wouldn't worry about the action on any modern production rifle short of having a barrel stuffed with mud.

 

[KHntr]

As I've been reading and trying to keep up with the 546 pages, I apologize if this question has been asked. What I am understanding and listening to some of the shoot 2 hunt stuff is that the low recoil of a .223 and the ability to put down follow up shots is one of the big advantages of smaller cartridges. @Formidilosus would shooting say a 6 Creedmoor over a .223 with a tmk or other similar match style bullet have its advantages in a hunting situation over a .223? I would assume yes in that you are shooting a slightly heavier bullet, say a 77tmk vs a 108 eldm. What I'm trying to understand is at what point does the recoil increase become a disadvantage over shooting a heaver grain projectile if they are both match style bullets for hunting? Obviously shooting a magnum has much more recoil, but I'm trying to think along the lines of lower recoiling cartridges.

You are misunderstanding the subtle difference between having the ability to send a follow up shot quickly and accurately, versus NEEDING to send a follow up shot.
I’ve been on the larger end of the spectrum animal wise when it comes to 22 centerfires, and a moose and an elk both got follow ups, but they didn’t need follow ups. There is an important distinction there.

I also killed quite a few elk and moose with mono’s that got follow ups shots, some needed them, some didn’t, but the ones that I could, got them. The ones shot with 88 ELD m’s from a 223AI, had more bullet trauma and faster kills than the ones shot with 264wm, 7wsm, 280AI, 300 Ultra and mono’s.

Think about that for a second in regards to your question. A 223 with 88’s kills stuff faster than big tough bullets from high recoil rifles. A 6 Creed isn’t gaining you anything over a 223 when viewed in that context.

By all means go 6 cm if you want, but you aren’t really going to gain any real world results.

 

[Harvey_NW]

By all means go 6 cm if you want, but you aren’t really going to gain any real world results.

No disagreement with anything else, but I think this might not be true as a blanket statement if you factor in longer ranges. The 6CM shooting 108/115's will have a distinguishable ballistic advantage over a SAAMI 223 shooting 88's.