.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[bcmntgoathunter.]

Impact velocity...
Im going to say those cartridges arent that different in speed.
All it changes is max distance due to velocity.

Thanks that's what I was figuring the 223 is gonna be my cheap practice rifle put a leupol vx 5 hd 3-15 on it but my 22 creedmore is getting another nightforce

 

[deer_hunter132]

Another qtr away 77tmk, maybe 75yds.

 

[KHntr]

Thanks, was just at corlanes and backcountry with no luck. Western metal has been getting tmk component bullets but was hoping to not have to load for the .223 as I load for others and would like to spend more time shooting and less loading on the high volume rifle.

If’n there were ever any at either of those places I would already have slicked them up….
I don’t mind loading at all, but I run those through my Raven and would prefer factory loaded.

 

[Hardly_Hangin]

@Tahr thanks for all the different perspectives and videos you've posted!

In your "muckings around" would you conclude that of all the bullets you've tested that produce reliably consistent pass through exits on deer sized game that the hammer hunters offer terminal performance closest to the TMK?

I tagged tahr here because he has posted the most in this thread about hammer bullets, but im open to hearing other opinions.

it seems like 62gr fusions offer high pass through % but give up some terminal performance compared to the tmk, and im wondering where hammers stand in the spectrum.

 

[Deere_Man]

For anyone looking for a very inexpensive option to shoot 223 or 5.56 with a 1:7” twist, Rossi’s newest single shot will soon be available in 5.56:

Rossie LWC 556x45mm

This 5.56x45mm NATO model of Rossi's Lightweight Carbine single shot rifle series is versatile, precise, & suppressor ready.

rossiusa.com

 

[FCCDerek]

Impact velocity...
Im going to say those cartridges arent that different in speed.
All it changes is max distance due to velocity.

Aren't that different? More like a lot different. Given the same barrel lengths, the 22CM will be 300-400 FPS faster. If not more.

 

[deer_hunter132]

I think i had a brain fart, i was thinking 22-250ai for some reason.

 

[FCCDerek]

I think i had a brain fart, i was thinking 22-250ai for some reason.

Now that's a very fair comparison. 22CM and 22-250AI are neck and neck. Really splitting hairs on those two. Basically comes down to who wants to risk their fingers loading it hotter to say which one is faster.

 

[Tahr]

@Tahr thanks for all the different perspectives and videos you've posted!

In your "muckings around" would you conclude that of all the bullets you've tested that produce reliably consistent pass through exits on deer sized game that the hammer hunters offer terminal performance closest to the TMK?

I tagged tahr here because he has posted the most in this thread about hammer bullets, but im open to hearing other opinions.

it seems like 62gr fusions offer high pass through % but give up some terminal performance compared to the tmk, and im wondering where hammers stand in the spectrum.

The Hammer Hunter (I use 60 grn) is a good performer on the proviso that its driven very fast. This isn't difficult because they seem to easily tolerate what would be warm loads for cup and core. My .223 velocity with them is 3250-ish. The fact that they shed their vicious petals seems to add the sort of churn created by the frangible bullets like the TMK. From my observations this makes them more effective than other bullets that reliably pass through.
They mostly straight line exit and there is often external blood (but not always). This doesn't mean they always leave a reliable blood trail though - it depends where you hit them. I get about the same percentage of runners with the Hammers as the TMKs.
It doesn't worry me too much if I use the TMK or Hammer, although with my Model 7 (9 twist) Im restricted to lighter bullets so I use the 60 Hammer. I use the TMKs and heavies in my Tikka.
Likewise Im not necessarily looking for pass throughs and blood trails - I have an excellent dog that finds the deer for me. If I didn't have a dog I might have found the .223 a bit frustrating by now.

Ive shot 62 deer this year with the .223 and have used 77TMK, 60 Hammers, 52, 74 and 80 Berger Jacket'd customs and 62 Norma. The Hammers and Norma have been the only bullets to reliably exit. Im shooting Red deer and the smaller Fallow.

 

[waawaashkeshi]

First experience with 77 TMK on game. Very close impact, roughly 2725 impact. Top of the back about an inch to the right of the spine into fourth rib. Good size impact. Immediate lights out, didn’t even kick. Vitals were shredded. Entire front of the body cavity and Backstraps very bloodshot. Massive internal hemorrhaging. Larger Northern Wisconsin whitetail doe. Rifle was 16” factory seekins NX-15. Happy thanks giving! God bless

 

[BLJ]

The Hammer Hunter (I use 60 grn) is a good performer on the proviso that its driven very fast. This isn't difficult because they seem to easily tolerate what would be warm loads for cup and core. My .223 velocity with them is 3250-ish. The fact that they shed their vicious petals seems to add the sort of churn created by the frangible bullets like the TMK. From my observations this makes them more effective than other bullets that reliably pass through.
They mostly straight line exit and there is often external blood (but not always). This doesn't mean they always leave a reliable blood trail though - it depends where you hit them. I get about the same percentage of runners with the Hammers as the TMKs.
It doesn't worry me too much if I use the TMK or Hammer, although with my Model 7 (9 twist) Im restricted to lighter bullets so I use the 60 Hammer. I use the TMKs and heavies in my Tikka.
Likewise Im not necessarily looking for pass throughs and blood trails - I have an excellent dog that finds the deer for me. If I didn't have a dog I might have found the .223 a bit frustrating by now.

Ive shot 62 deer this tear with the .223 and have used 77TMK, 60 Hammers, 52, 74 and 80 Berger Jacket'd customs and 62 Norma. The Hammers and Norma have been the only bullets to reliably exit. Im shooting Red deer and the smaller Fallow.

Don’t know if you’ve mentioned it before or not, but what specifically is the 62 Norma? Thanks.

 

[waawaashkeshi]

First experience with 77 TMK on game. Very close impact, roughly 2725 impact. Top of the back about an inch to the right of the spine into fourth rib. Good size impact. Immediate lights out, didn’t even kick. Vitals were shredded. Entire front of the body cavity and Backstraps very bloodshot. Massive internal hemorrhaging. Larger Northern Wisconsin whitetail doe. Rifle was 16” factory seekins NX-15. Happy thanks giving! God bless

 

[Tahr]

Don’t know if you’ve mentioned it before or not, but what specifically is the 62 Norma? Thanks.

It's just a lead tipped cup and core bullet very similar to the Sierra Game King. I had 150 of them and loaded them up to use for wallaby culling (they are a major pest here in NZ) and inevitably while culling I also came across and shot the odd deer. I was impressed by them so have held some of the loaded ammo back for deer hunting. I don't think I will be able to get any more of them but Im pretty sure the Sierra Game King will replicate their performance.
While I still think the 77TMK wins on deer and the 80 grn frangibles' are in second, I am not so certain that there is a clear "third place" - there is whole cluster of bullets that do the job nicely if guided well to the kill zone.
We really do seem to wring our hands a lot over some minor aspects of bullet performance that are variable and uncontrollable, and that don't make much difference.

 

[Hardly_Hangin]

The Hammer Hunter (I use 60 grn) is a good performer on the proviso that its driven very fast. This isn't difficult because they seem to easily tolerate what would be warm loads for cup and core. My .223 velocity with them is 3250-ish. The fact that they shed their vicious petals seems to add the sort of churn created by the frangible bullets like the TMK. From my observations this makes them more effective than other bullets that reliably pass through.
They mostly straight line exit and there is often external blood (but not always). This doesn't mean they always leave a reliable blood trail though - it depends where you hit them. I get about the same percentage of runners with the Hammers as the TMKs.
It doesn't worry me too much if I use the TMK or Hammer, although with my Model 7 (9 twist) Im restricted to lighter bullets so I use the 60 Hammer. I use the TMKs and heavies in my Tikka.
Likewise Im not necessarily looking for pass throughs and blood trails - I have an excellent dog that finds the deer for me. If I didn't have a dog I might have found the .223 a bit frustrating by now.

Ive shot 62 deer this year with the .223 and have used 77TMK, 60 Hammers, 52, 74 and 80 Berger Jacket'd customs and 62 Norma. The Hammers and Norma have been the only bullets to reliably exit. Im shooting Red deer and the smaller Fallow.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I do not have a dog. But the areas i hunt retrict my max range to maybe 150 yards but mostly sub 25-100 yards so perhaps my velocities will be high enough to make effective use of the hammers.

I also don't hand load so hammers may not even be a viable option.

Id like to test all of the options, but as its been stated before my sample sizes would never come close to offering an objective conclusion. I hunt relatively low deer density areas and usually only get to shoot one or two a year. We do have hogs but they are sparse in my area.

Thanks

 

[ihookem]

View attachment 798113

Waawaashskeshi, that is actually too much damage . Did you get that on the reservation? Your name gives me that impression.

View attachment 798113

Wawa

 

[waawaashkeshi]

Waawaashskeshi, that is actually too much damage . Did you get that on the reservation? Your name gives me that impression.

Wawa

South of Lac Courte, private land. Birchwood Wisconsin.

 

[robtattoo]

12pt whitetail, just this afternoon. I don't have full autopsy pics yet because I let my deer hang for a day or two before butchering. I'll update once I get the skin off.
124yds, extreme downhill angle. I was 12 feet up a tree, the deer was at the bottom of a VERY steep hill.
2517fps impact velocity from an 18" T3x, 77gr TMK
He ploughed about 20yds with no front legs, dead in maybe 5 seconds.

Entrance:


Exit:

 

[bcmntgoathunter.]

12pt whitetail, just this afternoon. I don't have full autopsy pics yet because I let my deer hang for a day or two before butchering. I'll update once I get the skin off.
124yds, extreme downhill angle. I was 12 feet up a tree, the deer was at the bottom of a VERY steep hill.
2517fps impact velocity from an 18" T3x

Entrance:
View attachment 798166

Exit:
View attachment 798167

View attachment 798168View attachment 798169View attachment 798170

That's a very unique deer right man nice shooting.

 

[sierracharlie338]

12pt whitetail, just this afternoon. I don't have full autopsy pics yet because I let my deer hang for a day or two before butchering. I'll update once I get the skin off.
124yds, extreme downhill angle. I was 12 feet up a tree, the deer was at the bottom of a VERY steep hill.
2517fps impact velocity from an 18" T3x, 77gr TMK
He ploughed about 20yds with no front legs, dead in maybe 5 seconds.

Entrance:
View attachment 798166

Exit:
View attachment 798167

View attachment 798168View attachment 798169View attachment 798170

Cool deer man congrats!

 

[BLJ]

@robtattoo. He’d make a cool euro mount.