.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[MEdude]

If you want to send a box my way, I’d be happy to get some data for you.
Just offering.

 

[rabbithuntr]

I put together a load with staball match and 73 elem. used 25.5 gas. Velocity was 2750fps. Using a 16” ar15. Shot 2 10 rd groups both 1.7 moa. Gun usually does 1.5 with 77 gr. IMI. So I switched to IMI brass from the PMC I was using which resulted in a 1.3 MOA 10rd group. Shot at 330 and 450 meters and got 1st round impact on both. On a 12” plate. Primers are on the flatter side but no ejector marks. Hodgdon calls for a of 25.3 with both 70 and 75 gr. if I recall correctly.


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[RiffRaff]

Greetings all, first post on this forum. Wanted to contribute to this thread as this discussion was what convinced me to use the .223 on last year's whitetail deer season in TN and I owe you some pictures. I know we're way past season, but I got busy with work and never got around to coming back and posting results. 3 deer down, 2 does, 1 buck. All good sized East TN mountain deer. All three shot from the same blind over a food plot ranged exactly 100 yards away (done on purpose for this testing). All three shot with a 16" BCM Recce 16 with a Vortex 1-6 on top. One killed using 77gr TMK, two killed using Barnes 70gr TSX (Vor-TX). Results and graphic photos of internal damage below.

Doe #1
70gr TSX at 100 yards. Fell over dead, likely due to striking shoulder blade (possibly nicked the spine too). Passed high through both lungs, 2 inch perfect wound cavity and full pass through. Minimal meat loss.




Buck #1
70gr TSX at 100 yards
Hit single lung as he was hard quartering away, also nicked the liver. Buck ran 40 yards uphill and rolled back down. Minimal blood trail, however again minimal meat loss. Only photo I saved was of the internal damage. The small triangular wound channel beside my middle finger was around 1.5" all the way through. Had this round not also gone through the liver I think it would have passed through.


Doe #2
77gr TMK at 100 yards (velocity should be about 2450 fps)
Hit broadside for testing, massive 3" wound cavity pushed all the way through torso, ribs blown out both sides, shrapnel wounds all throughout internals, major meat damage to offside shoulder. Full pass through. Deer ran about 40 yards before crashing into a fallen log. Minimal blood trail until the fall location, then massive blood spray all around where she dropped. I am guessing the internal damage would have been less extreme if the round hadn't exploded on that rib on the way in.



Conclusions:
Neither round produced heavy blood trails, however both proved extremely deadly and animals responded the same way they do when I use my .308. I am a meat hunter rather than trophy so I actually prefer the minimal damage of the 70gr TSX for whitetail. It worked like a broadhead, nice fat wound channel and minimal damage to anything else. The 77gr TMK however I will now use in these same rifles a primary home defense/hog hunting/coyote killing load. That was some of the most ridiculous damage I've ever seen inside a body cavity, like somebody took a pen knife and just slashed a piece off of every organ on the way through. I suppose the damage would have been lessened at longer ranges but 100 yds seems standard for most whitetail hunters in the southeast. Hope to do more testing in November. Thanks again to everyone else who contributed to this thread, it was very helpful in pushing me in this direction.

 

[SBR Sarge]

RiffRaff,

Nice write-up, and nice shooting. Thanks for taking the time to put together the pictures as well.

I’m also a fan of the tsx/ttsx bullets. Just keep them fast and they do really well, as you have shown.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Zero chance I’d choose a TSX or TTSX out of the .223 for big game. Too many other bullets produce wound channels more desirable for efficient killing.

 

[BLJ]

@RiffRaff. Looks like the Barnes proved to be very effective on your TN deer.

 

[Long Cut]

Zero chance I’d choose a TSX or TTSX out of the .223 for big game. Too many other bullets produce wound channels more desirable for efficient killing.

I’ve had good results with Barnes Vor-Tx out of my AR on deer.

Now I haven’t tried out the 77 TMK’s yet on deer…

 

[colby12]

I just got an invoice and shipping notification from Optics Planet for 1,000 TMKs. I backordered them in February and forgot about them until now. Thought I’d share, haven’t looked to see if they have them in stock or just backorder still.

 

[Tahr]

Zero chance I’d choose a TSX or TTSX out of the .223 for big game. Too many other bullets produce wound channels more desirable for efficient killing.

Yet RiffRaff (and others) provided clear evidence that they work and work well?? Have you ever used them??

 

[Shraggs]

Yet RiffRaff (and others) provided clear evidence that they work and work well?? Have you ever used them??

Wondering if you’ve read this entire thread?

 

[Formidilosus]

Yet RiffRaff (and others) provided clear evidence that they work and work well?? Have you ever used them??

If you’ve read the entire thread and asked that, then you haven’t read it. Will Mono .22 cal bullets kill animals- yes. However, they are the exact reason that smaller calibers have gotten the “marginal” label. Riff Raff stated that his results with Barnes was like a broadhead- that’s is not what most people are looking for when using a rifle.

Without question if this thread was about using monos in a 223 on deer, bear, elk, and moose- the vast majority after using the monos would say they are slow marginal killers, needing to be close shots with perfect animal presentation, and expect longer tracking jobs. Aka- a very different conclusion than people that have used the TMK’s have come to.

 

[BradArnett]

If you’ve read the entire thread and asked that, then you haven’t read it. Will Mono .22 cal bullets kill animals- yes. However, they are the exact reason that smaller calibers have gotten the “marginal” label. Riff Raff stated that his results with Barnes was like a broadhead- that’s is not what most people are looking for when using a rifle.

Without question if this thread was about using monos in a 223 on deer, bear, elk, and moose- the vast majority after using the monos would say they are slow marginal killers, needing to be close shots with perfect animal presentation, and expect longer tracking jobs. Aka- a very different conclusion than people that have used the TMK’s have come to.

This is correct.

Small calibers have been my mainstay for deer for the past 10-12years now. I have killed a truckload of deer from 20-480yds using a 223/223ai and 22-250/22-250ai with 50vmax, 53tsx, 60vmax, 60partitions, 62tsx, 64powerponits, 75scirocco, 75amax. I have the most kills with the 62tsx and the 75amaxs. My experience over the years has been that the 75amax will put deer down much quicker than than the tsx ever did for me. Quickest kill of all those bullets was a 75'max at 20yds via 1-8" 22-250 quartering towards on a buck. No exit, but that doesn't matter... grin. The 50vmax at 480yds via 223ai and a solid broadside lung hit was pretty spectacular as well. My tsx, and bonded bullet, shot deer all run off a ways and die. Blood trails have been varied with placement, as expected.

 

[N2TRKYS]

This is correct.

Small calibers have been my mainstay for deer for the past 10-12years now. I have killed a truckload of deer from 20-480yds using a 223/223ai and 22-250/22-250ai with 50vmax, 53tsx, 60vmax, 60partitions, 62tsx, 64powerponits, 75scirocco, 75amax. I have the most kills with the 62tsx and the 75amaxs. My experience over the years has been that the 75amax will put deer down much quicker than than the tsx ever did for me. Quickest kill of all those bullets was a 75'max at 20yds via 1-8" 22-250 quartering towards on a buck. No exit, but that doesn't matter... grin. The 50vmax at 480yds via 223ai and a solid broadside lung hit was pretty spectacular as well. My tsx, and bonded bullet, shot deer all run off a ways and die. Blood trails have been varied with placement, as expected.

Which one offered the most consistent blood trail in your 223?

 

[BradArnett]

Which one offered the most consistent blood trail in your 223?

For me, the 75amax on broadside lung shots put the most blood on the ground. But I didn't always get exits with that bullet. But as you know, exits and blood trails can vary with shot placement. Never have lost a deer with one, and they have resulted in the shortest distances from impact to picking up a dead deer.

 

[N2TRKYS]

For me, the 75amax on broadside lung shots put the most blood on the ground. But I didn't always get exits with that bullet. But as you know, exits and blood trails can vary with shot placement. Never have lost a deer with one, and they have resulted in the shortest distances from impact to picking up a dead deer.

Thanks for the info. I’m looking for a bullet that produces consistent pass throughs.

 

[rabbithuntr]

FMJ FTW


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[atmat]

Thanks for the info. I’m looking for a bullet that produces consistent pass throughs.

Why? You should be looking for a bullet that produces consistent and quick kills.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Why? You should be looking for a bullet that produces consistent and quick kills.

Cause those do that for me. And I can find them when they do run off.

 

[Tahr]

If you’ve read the entire thread and asked that, then you haven’t read it. Will Mono .22 cal bullets kill animals- yes. However, they are the exact reason that smaller calibers have gotten the “marginal” label. Riff Raff stated that his results with Barnes was like a broadhead- that’s is not what most people are looking for when using a rifle.

Without question if this thread was about using monos in a 223 on deer, bear, elk, and moose- the vast majority after using the monos would say they are slow marginal killers, needing to be close shots with perfect animal presentation, and expect longer tracking jobs. Aka- a very different conclusion than people that have used the TMK’s have come to.

I have read every word. My point being that RiffRaff used the TSX and was thoroughly pleased with it and was clear that he preferred the TSX for deer over the Sierra Tipped and why. That was good enough for me (and for him). That there are other opinions ought not be used to devalue his experience and choice.

 

[Shraggs]

RiffRaffs post was informative. Most or many know a 233 kills deer at 100 yards with a variety of bullets. The tsx hit was not just a double lung/heart as noted, and the drop in tracks is an asterisk. That was my hard distance stop until this thread. Meat preservation respected.

The author kills large game at long or longer range. Something a 223 is not recognized for in big game.

For those that jump on looking for a deer Bullet for a 223 that haven’t read all, distance matters in conclusion of that information. A mono copper is not going to do significant or enough tissue damage as witnessed say at 200-500 yards in a tiny bore.

This thread shows that highly frangible bullets of good to high BC and at or heavy for caliber create significantly higher tissue damage than what most recognize for traditional bullets in any given caliber, hence Bullet type matters as much or more than caliber. As RR noted this in autopsy, in fact too much for his eatable desires.

If longer range is possible or desired I wouldn’t be concluding a mono in a 223 will be effective at 400 yards.