.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[BLJ]

@RiffRaff. Looks like the Barnes proved to be very effective on your TN deer.

 

[Long Cut]

Zero chance I’d choose a TSX or TTSX out of the .223 for big game. Too many other bullets produce wound channels more desirable for efficient killing.

I’ve had good results with Barnes Vor-Tx out of my AR on deer.

Now I haven’t tried out the 77 TMK’s yet on deer…

 

[colby12]

I just got an invoice and shipping notification from Optics Planet for 1,000 TMKs. I backordered them in February and forgot about them until now. Thought I’d share, haven’t looked to see if they have them in stock or just backorder still.

 

[Tahr]

Zero chance I’d choose a TSX or TTSX out of the .223 for big game. Too many other bullets produce wound channels more desirable for efficient killing.

Yet RiffRaff (and others) provided clear evidence that they work and work well?? Have you ever used them??

 

[Shraggs]

Yet RiffRaff (and others) provided clear evidence that they work and work well?? Have you ever used them??

Wondering if you’ve read this entire thread?

 

[Formidilosus]

Yet RiffRaff (and others) provided clear evidence that they work and work well?? Have you ever used them??

If you’ve read the entire thread and asked that, then you haven’t read it. Will Mono .22 cal bullets kill animals- yes. However, they are the exact reason that smaller calibers have gotten the “marginal” label. Riff Raff stated that his results with Barnes was like a broadhead- that’s is not what most people are looking for when using a rifle.

Without question if this thread was about using monos in a 223 on deer, bear, elk, and moose- the vast majority after using the monos would say they are slow marginal killers, needing to be close shots with perfect animal presentation, and expect longer tracking jobs. Aka- a very different conclusion than people that have used the TMK’s have come to.

 

[BradArnett]

If you’ve read the entire thread and asked that, then you haven’t read it. Will Mono .22 cal bullets kill animals- yes. However, they are the exact reason that smaller calibers have gotten the “marginal” label. Riff Raff stated that his results with Barnes was like a broadhead- that’s is not what most people are looking for when using a rifle.

Without question if this thread was about using monos in a 223 on deer, bear, elk, and moose- the vast majority after using the monos would say they are slow marginal killers, needing to be close shots with perfect animal presentation, and expect longer tracking jobs. Aka- a very different conclusion than people that have used the TMK’s have come to.

This is correct.

Small calibers have been my mainstay for deer for the past 10-12years now. I have killed a truckload of deer from 20-480yds using a 223/223ai and 22-250/22-250ai with 50vmax, 53tsx, 60vmax, 60partitions, 62tsx, 64powerponits, 75scirocco, 75amax. I have the most kills with the 62tsx and the 75amaxs. My experience over the years has been that the 75amax will put deer down much quicker than than the tsx ever did for me. Quickest kill of all those bullets was a 75'max at 20yds via 1-8" 22-250 quartering towards on a buck. No exit, but that doesn't matter... grin. The 50vmax at 480yds via 223ai and a solid broadside lung hit was pretty spectacular as well. My tsx, and bonded bullet, shot deer all run off a ways and die. Blood trails have been varied with placement, as expected.

 

[N2TRKYS]

This is correct.

Small calibers have been my mainstay for deer for the past 10-12years now. I have killed a truckload of deer from 20-480yds using a 223/223ai and 22-250/22-250ai with 50vmax, 53tsx, 60vmax, 60partitions, 62tsx, 64powerponits, 75scirocco, 75amax. I have the most kills with the 62tsx and the 75amaxs. My experience over the years has been that the 75amax will put deer down much quicker than than the tsx ever did for me. Quickest kill of all those bullets was a 75'max at 20yds via 1-8" 22-250 quartering towards on a buck. No exit, but that doesn't matter... grin. The 50vmax at 480yds via 223ai and a solid broadside lung hit was pretty spectacular as well. My tsx, and bonded bullet, shot deer all run off a ways and die. Blood trails have been varied with placement, as expected.

Which one offered the most consistent blood trail in your 223?

 

[BradArnett]

Which one offered the most consistent blood trail in your 223?

For me, the 75amax on broadside lung shots put the most blood on the ground. But I didn't always get exits with that bullet. But as you know, exits and blood trails can vary with shot placement. Never have lost a deer with one, and they have resulted in the shortest distances from impact to picking up a dead deer.

 

[N2TRKYS]

For me, the 75amax on broadside lung shots put the most blood on the ground. But I didn't always get exits with that bullet. But as you know, exits and blood trails can vary with shot placement. Never have lost a deer with one, and they have resulted in the shortest distances from impact to picking up a dead deer.

Thanks for the info. I’m looking for a bullet that produces consistent pass throughs.

 

[rabbithuntr]

FMJ FTW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[atmat]

Thanks for the info. I’m looking for a bullet that produces consistent pass throughs.

Why? You should be looking for a bullet that produces consistent and quick kills.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Why? You should be looking for a bullet that produces consistent and quick kills.

Cause those do that for me. And I can find them when they do run off.

 

[Tahr]

If you’ve read the entire thread and asked that, then you haven’t read it. Will Mono .22 cal bullets kill animals- yes. However, they are the exact reason that smaller calibers have gotten the “marginal” label. Riff Raff stated that his results with Barnes was like a broadhead- that’s is not what most people are looking for when using a rifle.

Without question if this thread was about using monos in a 223 on deer, bear, elk, and moose- the vast majority after using the monos would say they are slow marginal killers, needing to be close shots with perfect animal presentation, and expect longer tracking jobs. Aka- a very different conclusion than people that have used the TMK’s have come to.

I have read every word. My point being that RiffRaff used the TSX and was thoroughly pleased with it and was clear that he preferred the TSX for deer over the Sierra Tipped and why. That was good enough for me (and for him). That there are other opinions ought not be used to devalue his experience and choice.

 

[Shraggs]

RiffRaffs post was informative. Most or many know a 233 kills deer at 100 yards with a variety of bullets. The tsx hit was not just a double lung/heart as noted, and the drop in tracks is an asterisk. That was my hard distance stop until this thread. Meat preservation respected.

The author kills large game at long or longer range. Something a 223 is not recognized for in big game.

For those that jump on looking for a deer Bullet for a 223 that haven’t read all, distance matters in conclusion of that information. A mono copper is not going to do significant or enough tissue damage as witnessed say at 200-500 yards in a tiny bore.

This thread shows that highly frangible bullets of good to high BC and at or heavy for caliber create significantly higher tissue damage than what most recognize for traditional bullets in any given caliber, hence Bullet type matters as much or more than caliber. As RR noted this in autopsy, in fact too much for his eatable desires.

If longer range is possible or desired I wouldn’t be concluding a mono in a 223 will be effective at 400 yards.

 

[cod0396]

Yet RiffRaff (and others) provided clear evidence that they work and work well?? Have you ever used them??

His results showed that the mono made 1.5-2" diameter wounds while the TMK made wounds twice that diameter. That is a gigantic difference in tissue disruption, not to mention that the difference would be even more drastic at further ranges or in shorter barrels. Of course a 1.5" hole in an animal's vitals will take it down, but not as quickly or as effectively as a 3-4" hole will.

The distance an animal runs is only half the story - down doesn't mean dead. Assuming shot placement is identical, the time it takes for the animal to actually succumb to its wounds and bleed out directly correlates with wound channel size.


*The rest of this comment isn't necessarily directed towards you, but to anyone wondering WHY high weight retention monos or bonded bullets are inferior to bullets like TMK.

When it comes to ethical kills with a .223 (or any rifle caliber really), fragmentation is your friend. I'm not sure if this has been touched on in the thread, but there is a very simple reason why fragmentation as seen in bullets like TMK and AMAX/ELD-M does far more damage than mere expansion. It's not just because fragments make a bunch of tiny wound channels, as some like to believe.

We all know that rifle bullets make a significant temporary cavity above a certain velocity. What fragmentation does is weaken the structural integrity of the tissue and make it MUCH easier to tear. Think about tearing an intact piece of paper or a rubber band vs one with a bunch of little holes in it. That's why bullets like the TMK are as effective as they are. Fragmentation helps ensure that the temporary cavity becomes essentially permanent. Not the case with weight retaining monolithics.

Like Formidilosus said, this thread would have a VERY different tone if the main bullet in question was the barnes TSX and not the 77gr TMK.

 

[RiffRaff]

Hey Dudes, didn't mean to restart old arguments with my post. I want to clarify my conclusions as the context might not be clear. For me, a meat hunter with shots at or under 100 yards, friendly relationships with all bordering neighbors in case a deer runs, and controlled, known-distance shots, the TSX works better for me as a meat harvesting round, precisely because it does less damage. No different than bowhunting.

With all that said however, the 77gr TMK is without a doubt the deadlier bullet. If I was hunting at farther distances up to 400, sure I would probably take it instead. But with my sub-100 yard set up, it just did more damage than I would like. I lost an entire front quarter due to the shrapnel blasting out the other side.

If you are trophy hunting backcountry, or with unknown ranges, then the 77gr TMK would be the far safer choice. Like I said in my original post - for defensive carbine / predator control / hog control, the 77gr TMK is my new go-to because I don't care about meat loss in those situations, just maximum killing ability.

I think you just gotta analyze your personal situation with this stuff.

With that said, does anyone have specific information on the 77gr TMKs performance through bone? I would like to experiment with some high shoulder anchoring shots this season as that is the shot I aim for when I do make it out to the backcountry mountains.

 

[Formidilosus]

With that said, does anyone have specific information on the 77gr TMKs performance through bone?

There is a ton of information about bone performance in this thread. I would highly suggest that you read every post from start to finish.

 

[Veloci_Wrench]

Hey Dudes, didn't mean to restart old arguments with my post. I want to clarify my conclusions as the context might not be clear. For me, a meat hunter with shots at or under 100 yards, friendly relationships with all bordering neighbors in case a deer runs, and controlled, known-distance shots, the TSX works better for me as a meat harvesting round, precisely because it does less damage. No different than bowhunting.

With all that said however, the 77gr TMK is without a doubt the deadlier bullet. If I was hunting at farther distances up to 400, sure I would probably take it instead. But with my sub-100 yard set up, it just did more damage than I would like. I lost an entire front quarter due to the shrapnel blasting out the other side.

If you are trophy hunting backcountry, or with unknown ranges, then the 77gr TMK would be the far safer choice. Like I said in my original post - for defensive carbine / predator control / hog control, the 77gr TMK is my new go-to because I don't care about meat loss in those situations, just maximum killing ability.

I think you just gotta analyze your personal situation with this stuff.

With that said, does anyone have specific information on the 77gr TMKs performance through bone? I would like to experiment with some high shoulder anchoring shots this season as that is the shot I aim for when I do make it out to the backcountry mountains.

Here’s a TLDR for you: TMK gives reliable performance even through bone. It has been recommended to aim for shoulders to drop game quickly, even in larger game like elk.

 

[sram9102]

Can the guy who's wife shot the moose just post it every few day to clear all of this up...