.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Hoopleheader]

This is an interesting thread. It would still be close to my last choice given all of the cartridge options we have, but I read roughly 15-20 pages to understand why the 77gr TMK was considered such a wonder pill, as at first glance, I don’t see why a lighter but tougher bullet wouldn’t do just as well.

Ignoring external ballistics, a high SD, lightly constructed bullet pushed at moderate velocities will shed enough weight to cause sufficient wounding via expansion and fragmentation, but should retain enough mass due to a high starting point to penetrate adequately.

I don’t see why this wouldn’t work, but would have a nagging concern over what happens when shoulders are hit on larger specimens, even in fragile deer. There are, however, positive examples in this thread.

Consider this a rare win for changing someone’s mind. People could have been kinder to each other though…

 

[Formidilosus]

I don’t see why this wouldn’t work, but would have a nagging concern over what happens when shoulders are hit on larger specimens, even in fragile deer. There are, however, positive examples in this thread.

Consider this a rare win for changing someone’s mind. People could have been kinder to each other though…

That’s good. Bullets change over time, our understanding of what happens and how to optimize them do as well.

Of the shoulder issue, did you read the whole thread? There are several elk and a moose with scapula and major bone hits.

 

[Hoopleheader]

That’s good. Bullets change over time, our understanding of what happens and how to optimize them do as well.

Of the shoulder issue, did you read the whole thread? There are several elk and a moose with scapula and major bone hits.

I didn’t get through the whole thing yet, as it is very long.

I do not not doubt that there has been positive examples on shoulder shots. Where my head is going is that this bullet ,TMK, appears to be a standard cup and core design. While I have not personally seen bullets of similar design “blow up” and fail to expand in larger calibers, there are enough accounts of it happening in larger calibers that I trust that it does occur, even if at a low rate. That is where my reservation would come from.

For what it is worth, what I described about heavy for caliber, lightly constructed bullets is far from a new understanding. I believe my first issue of Gun Digest from 20-25 years ago had a neat article from a guy who decided after some experimentation that a 1917 Enfield in 30-06 using ancient 220 gr SP RN was the perfect “medium bore” foul weather backup rifle to his trusty .375 HH…. for elk.

I think what has changed is the long range shooting craze teaching us that heavy bullets are good for distance shooting and low velocities and tough bullets don’t mix well. And people not being afraid to admit that they are recoil sensitive after starting out on heavy ARs that bruise shoulders as much as a baby farting in my face gives me a black eye.

I’d rather have a thread like this informing hunters who are going to use 223s what works best…if not being the best choice, it is going to happen due to the rate of ownership.

 

[PNWGATOR]

FWIW, based on my first hand experience and the vast experience of others who’ve contribute to this thread, the 77TMK out of a .223 would be my first choice for EVERY animal on the North American continent if I was keeping all of my shots inside of 450 yds.

 

[Hoopleheader]

FWIW, based on my first hand experience and the vast experience of others who’ve contribute to this thread, the 77TMK out of a .223 would be my first choice for EVERY animal on the North American continent if I was keeping all of my shots inside of 450 yds.

More power to you. Just be sure to keep an open mind if in fact you do experience poor performance at some point.

I conviceced myself I needed tough as nails bullets at one point, but found over time I preferred a construction that both expanded violently and held together to create a hole on the other side for effect on game and ease of tracking. Keep in mind I just described a Nosler partition.

That said, I also have kept an open mind and decided it was better to avoid feeding my family a neurotoxin and switched to Barnes and aim for shoulders.

 

[Moose83]

Possibly a dumb question. ... can you load 75gr eld-m to fit in a factory tikka mag? They are the only thing I have available to me here locally that are reasonably priced. I've found exactly one source for 77 tmk's here in Canada but they will be close to $80/100 by the time they get to me so not exactly conducive to volume practice. Thanks.

 

[Sandstrom]

Possibly a dumb question. ... can you load 75gr eld-m to fit in a factory tikka mag? They are the only thing I have available to me here locally that are reasonably priced. I've found exactly one source for 77 tmk's here in Canada but they will be close to $80/100 by the time they get to me so not exactly conducive to volume practice. Thanks.

According to Hornady, the 73 eldm and the 75 bthp will be fine loaded at mag length. The 75 eldm and amax are designed to be longer.
Hope this helps!
Ryan

 

[Juan_ID]

Possibly a dumb question. ... can you load 75gr eld-m to fit in a factory tikka mag? They are the only thing I have available to me here locally that are reasonably priced. I've found exactly one source for 77 tmk's here in Canada but they will be close to $80/100 by the time they get to me so not exactly conducive to volume practice. Thanks.

I loaded some 75gr eldm’s at mag length and accuracy wasn’t even close when compared to the rounds that were longer.

 

[Moose83]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll have to keep my eye out for some 73gr eld-m.

 

[aschuler]

I loaded some 75gr eldm’s at mag length and accuracy wasn’t even close when compared to the rounds that were longer.

Same here.
I shoot the 75 eldm in my Tikka with a COAL of 2.420, and they're very consistent at that length. I use a modified 6 round mag.

 

[wind gypsy]

I had a 1:8 223ai worked great with 75 berger vld and the 77 matchking. 25.5g varget gave 2900fps from a 20" barrel
Cfe 223 was over 3,000 fps but harder to find than varget
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Was your AI a tikka and how did it feed?

I'm tempted to rebarrel my tikka and have waffled back and forth between going AI or not.

 

[Mulyhuntr]

Possibly a dumb question. ... can you load 75gr eld-m to fit in a factory tikka mag? They are the only thing I have available to me here locally that are reasonably priced. I've found exactly one source for 77 tmk's here in Canada but they will be close to $80/100 by the time they get to me so not exactly conducive to volume practice. Thanks.

Get a mountain tactical mag (fits in factory bottom metal). You can go out to 2.6" with them. You should be in the 2.4"-2.45" range in a Tikka with the 75 eld-m.

 

[amassi]

Was your AI a tikka and how did it feed?

I'm tempted to rebarrel my tikka and have waffled back and forth between going AI or not.

Wby vanguard and fed fine from the factory mag as well as the plastic howa bottom metal and mags. Tikka ought to do even better

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Juan_ID]

Finally getting around to loading some tmk’s, just did a ladder test for starters but they seem less finnicky than the 75gr eldm’s which is nice

 

[Castle Rock]

Finally getting around to loading some tmk’s, just did a ladder test for starters but they seem less finnicky than the 75gr eldm’s which is nice View attachment 368717

They are most definitely less fussy

 

[PintsOfCraft]

Just found this thread as a cross reference from a convo over on the 24hr Campfire. Eye opening to say the least.

 

[260284]

View attachment 367282
According to Hornady, the 73 eldm and the 75 bthp will be fine loaded at mag length. The 75 eldm and amax are designed to be longer.
Hope this helps!
Ryan

What is mag length on a Tikka magazine? Is it longer than an AR mag? I have AICS mags and bottom metal on my Tikka Varmint and I load the 75gr ELDM at almost 2.50" COAL. I know Mountaing Tactical makes a billet replacement magazine for Tikka rifles, but I am not sure what the COAL is.

 

[Stu]

What is mag length on a Tikka magazine? Is it longer than an AR mag? I have AICS mags and bottom metal on my Tikka Varmint and I load the 75gr ELDM at almost 2.50" COAL. I know Mountaing Tactical makes a billet replacement magazine for Tikka rifles, but I am not sure what the COAL is.

Tikka 223 factory mags are about 2.300" internal. I do load the 77 TMK to that length with compressed powders like Varget in order to stuff more powder in the case.

 

[Mulyhuntr]

What is mag length on a Tikka magazine? Is it longer than an AR mag? I have AICS mags and bottom metal on my Tikka Varmint and I load the 75gr ELDM at almost 2.50" COAL. I know Mountaing Tactical makes a billet replacement magazine for Tikka rifles, but I am not sure what the COAL is.

2.6" for the mountain tactical mags

 

[BjornF16]

2.6" for the mountain tactical mags

Mountain Tactical has .223 magazines?