.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Elk botherer]

You gave me a boost!

It’s deserved. I can’t believe I left out savages. Not to derail the thread anymore, back to .223 carnage.

 

[Chris in TN]

I have to grow a manbun now I guess. I joined the 77TMK club this morning. Saw three antlerless deer. Believed the first and third to be mature does. The middle one was definitely a fawn. The first surprised me by quickly walking past but the second two stopped. Turns out the third was just a larger fawn. She stopped broadsided at 25-26 yards and in the moment I forgot to account for the high scope mount of an AR15 so I hit her perhaps an inch below where I intended. Entry low and immediately behind the right shoulder crease, bottom of both lungs, hit the heart low but centered, exited juuuuuust in front of left shoulder crease. Barely touched that shoulder. Caliber entrance, 1” exit through hide, 1.25” entrance into ribs, 1.25” exit from ribs. She did a 55 yards death lunge with a small amount of blood coming from the exit, typical of a shoulder exit. Sufficient for tracking but that wasn’t needed - I watched her enter the woods and thought I saw/heard her fall a few yards in. I gave her a few minutes to be sure then found her piled up where I’d last seen movement. Damage to both lungs but the heart was absolutely destroyed. No drama. I would have expected the exact same from any other caliber.

23.0gr. Hodgdon Benchmark, 1x AAC brass, Tula SRM primer, 77TMK seated to 2.255” and 2575’mv from a 16” 1-7 Ballistic Advantage barrel w/YHM R9 can.

When I found and saw how small she was (meaning thin chest) my mind went to the question of whether the bullet opened fast enough to do the sort of damage the TMK is known for. I shouldn’t have worried. lol.

Entrance



Exit:
Rib entrance


Rib exit:

I’m holding the top of the heart and the knife is pointing to what used to be the middle of the heart:

Action shot of my girls’ bARbie-15:

ETA:

The fascia between shoulder and ribs was a mess, as you’d expect from a bullet moving perhaps 2520’ on impact, but there was no significant bloodshot meat on the shoulders except maybe an inch around the exit.

 

[liv3mind]

How do you like the BCA bolt action upper? I have wanted a bolt action upper, but the ones I knew about were $1K plus.

I know I'm not the original poster, but I have 2, both work flawlessly after I removed the insert inside of the extractor spring, oring, and cycled them lots, CLP etc. To be fair this is not a BCA thing, it's pretty common in the Grendel case world to remove them. Both rifles shoot exceptionally better than me, mine are 6arc and 6.5grendel, I plan to order one in 22arc and 5.56 as well.

 

[sebastian.cassell]

How do you like the BCA bolt action upper? I have wanted a bolt action upper, but the ones I knew about were $1K plus.

I really like the BCA bolt action which is surprising as I own some really nice “real” bolt action rifles. I’ve noticed it unlocks out of battery better with a magazine loaded and I suspect that’s due to the lugs “floating”? Inside the barrel extension when a mag is out. The bolt does unlock itself very easily which is a pet peeve of mine so I added some stretchy cord to remedy that. I also have one in 6 arc that has a much lower round count and isn’t quite as nice to operate yet. The 223 upper has been extremely reliable and I do plan on building some more in 300blk and maybe 338arc.

 

[Chris in TN]

So, you guys with BCA 'bolt' guns....are you using gas gun data, bolt gun data, somewhere in between....??

I don't know enough about the current state of bolt manufacture for variant calibers to know how much of a risk there is of bolt failure. I have tried to keep my 6.8spc within SAAMI specs, but it's spec'ed higher than 6arc by a good bit. I'd assume that without a gas system in place the pressures on an AR bolt might be slighter gentler - bolt face pressure should be roughly the same but the unlocking cycle ought to be easier. Right?

 

[BigEd36]

So, you guys with BCA 'bolt' guns....are you using gas gun data, bolt gun data, somewhere in between....??

I don't know enough about the current state of bolt manufacture for variant calibers to know how much of a risk there is of bolt failure. I have tried to keep my 6.8spc within SAAMI specs, but it's spec'ed higher than 6arc by a good bit. I'd assume that without a gas system in place the pressures on an AR bolt might be slighter gentler - bolt face pressure should be roughly the same but the unlocking cycle ought to be easier. Right?

I have been considering getting a BCA bolt gun in 6 ARC or 22 ARC and had wondered about the gas pressure. I contacted BCA and was told pressures should be kept to 52,000 PSI (gas gun pressures).

 

[Chris in TN]

I have been considering getting a BCA bolt gun in 6 ARC or 22 ARC and had wondered about the gas pressure. I contacted BCA and was told pressures should be kept to 52,000 PSI (gas gun pressures).

If I built one I'd probably start with a BCA upper then swap the bolt and maybe even the barrel. I’m assuming I could get someone to make a barrel without a gas port. Or just put a reversed block on it. But the main thing would be to swap to a stronger bolt, I’d think.

I ask because I know people have been using 6.5G loads that were probably 65kPSI or higher since the beginning and if you get rid of the violent cycling I’d think the barrels themselves would be fine, I’d just worry about breaking a bolt lug at the worst moment.

On the flipside, most of my rifles, I run fairly mild loads. I’d rather buy a larger cartridge and run it mild than to try to push a smaller one hard. The obvious appeal here is the ability to stuff the ARC into a platform that’s so available.

 

[liv3mind]

So, you guys with BCA 'bolt' guns....are you using gas gun data, bolt gun data, somewhere in between....??

I don't know enough about the current state of bolt manufacture for variant calibers to know how much of a risk there is of bolt failure. I have tried to keep my 6.8spc within SAAMI specs, but it's spec'ed higher than 6arc by a good bit. I'd assume that without a gas system in place the pressures on an AR bolt might be slighter gentler - bolt face pressure should be roughly the same but the unlocking cycle ought to be easier. Right?

Ymmv and a big "*" I'm over gas loads in my BCA bolt 6arc and it's been fine so far. They come with a sleeve that blocks the gas port.

 

[coyotekilla]

Maybe this has been shared here already. And while ive seen 223's drop whitetail first hand, I can't deny that this is a compelling and well put together video. He repeats the test with a 338um and the results are drastic. Id be hard pressed to intentionally take game over 350 lbs with 223.

 

[TxxAgg]

Maybe this has been shared here already. And while ive seen 223's drop whitetail first hand, I can't deny that this is a compelling and well put together video. He repeats the test with a 338um and the results are drastic. Id be hard pressed to intentionally take game over 350 lbs with 223.

It was previously posted on page 590 if you’d like to go back and read the replies refuting it.

 

[Choupique]

Maybe this has been shared here already

Theres a lengthy thread on it. I'll see ir i can find ir

 

[Choupique]

Maybe this has been shared here already. And while ive seen 223's drop whitetail first hand, I can't deny that this is a compelling and well put together video. He repeats the test with a 338um and the results are drastic. Id be hard pressed to intentionally take game over 350 lbs with 223.

Here's the thread

Thread 'JVB testing the 77gr TMK for elk hunting' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/jvb-testing-the-77gr-tmk-for-elk-hunting.425337/

 

[Big_wals]

Maybe this has been shared here already. And while ive seen 223's drop whitetail first hand, I can't deny that this is a compelling and well put together video. He repeats the test with a 338um and the results are drastic. Id be hard pressed to intentionally take game over 350 lbs with 223.

This was said on the other thread too, but if you slow the video down to .25 it looks like the 338 also failed to penetrate the massive beef knuckle that was somehow supposed to represent an elk. There’s a reason the video fades out and ends there. If it blasted thru the bone and penetrated 30+ inches of gel as he claims on screen, you’d think that would be worth actually showing and spending a couple minutes talking about.

 

[Choupique]

I for one enjoy the study of what happens when you shoot a finished out steers femur knuckle with a .338 ultra at about 10 feet away. If i ever find myself in Africa, or fighting off my uncles angry brahma cows, ill know my .338 is ready.

He could have done a lot of things differently there to achieve his desired result. Didn't do his credibility any favors with the fade out, or that it appears he possibly hit the table.

 

[turbo406]

I for one enjoy the study of what happens when you shoot a finished out steers femur knuckle with a .338 ultra at about 10 feet away. If i ever find myself in Africa, or fighting off my uncles angry brahma cows, ill know my .338 is ready.

He could have done a lot of things differently there to achieve his desired result. Didn't do his credibility any favors with the fade out, or that it appears he possibly hit the table.

His credibility went out the window a long time ago, listened to one of his podcasts and it was the typical " nobody should be doing this but here's a couple examples where I did it and it worked well but only with my sponsored products" .

 

[MHWASH]

His credibility went out the window a long time ago, listened to one of his podcasts and it was the typical " nobody should be doing this but here's a couple examples where I did it and it worked well but only with my sponsored products" .

I quit listening to JVB when he was promoting Browning. I'm not criticizing Browning, but when they make the best guns, ammo and clothing, it's hard to take anyone serious.

 

[The Guide]

His credibility went out the window a long time ago, listened to one of his podcasts and it was the typical " nobody should be doing this but here's a couple examples where I did it and it worked well but only with my sponsored products" .

His credibility went out the window after he started dirty deleting podcast episodes that had anything to do with his brother in them when Aram shot the leg off the ladies BOL.

Jay

 

[WyldGoose]

His credibility went out the window after he started dirty deleting podcast episodes that had anything to do with his brother in them when Aram shot the leg off the ladies BOL.

Jay

As tragic as that was…totally worth it for the memes.
Still haven’t laughed as hard as I did watching that thread.