.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[jmsdad]

Taking this to Wyoming next weekend for antelope. Took the .260CTR barrel off and screw this 22-250 take-off barrel on. Easy load workup with the 77gr TMKs--going with the RL16 load. Athlon Helos scope arrived yesterday and need to zero in.

 

[Nomosendero]

I'd greatly appreciate sources for this.

My poop
Just kidding of course. Most of the time I lung them so lead is a non issue for those and if I do hit a shoulder, I process my own meat and watch for that. So, in 50 years and animals in the 3 digits it has not been a big deal.

 

[BigNate]

Do you understand the differences between lead acetate? There are even several variations of it and none are the compound used in making bullets.

Also, I didn't mean that to sound belligerent, sorry. I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge and insight, as well as a love for bang flop terminal performance on game.

FWIW, here's all I've been able to find on the topic so far:

Effects of meals and meal times on uptake of lead from the gastrointestinal tract in humans - PubMed

Twenty three adults ingested 203Pb as lead acetate on the 12th hour of a 19 h fast. Retention measured 7 days later in a whole-body counter was 61% and whole-body turnover rates suggested that initial uptake had been considerably greater. Balanced meals eaten with 203Pb reduced lead uptake to 4%...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

While promising, this research does not exactly make it clear that any old meal will drastically reduce lead absorption in the body.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Do you understand the differences between lead acetate? There are even several variations of it and none are the compound used in making bullets.

I'm not an idiot, if that's what you're saying. What I was getting at is that I can't find any study that gives me the warm fuzzies about eating lead bullet fragments. The study I posted above is as close to supportive as I could find. Arguing about which formulation of lead is used in a study doesn't convince me. The absence of a smoking gun doesn't placate my common sense and intuition (not saying those are always right, but in the absence of certainty, I tend to use caution).

I haven't managed to find something conclusive in Form's old posts yet, but I will freely admit to giving up on scrolling after 7-8 pages of his posts. I'm comfortably in the undecided camp, and the research papers I've found are not complete, nor conclusive.

 

[Tod osier]

Do you understand the differences between lead acetate? There are even several variations of it and none are the compound used in making bullets.

And of course you understand that when calling someone's understanding of chemistry it looks pretty funny when you call lead metal (the form of lead used in a bullet) a chemical "compound", which it is not.

 

[BigNate]

My use of the word compound was in the fact the study references various lead acetate compounds not lead as used in bullets or lead shot for that matter.

 

[Hthunter]

Sorry to divert away from lead acetate/chemistry/copper/etc . But I have 62 gr federal fusions and 75gr eldm. I plan on using these on SE whitetail and range practice. Which would be better for Whitetail deer hunting? I know 77 TMKs would be better but that’s not an option for me at the moment.

 

[PathFinder]

75 ELD M. I've killed a few deer with the 73 ELD M and it is a phenomenal little bullet.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Hthunter]

75 ELD M. I've killed a few deer with the 73 ELD M and it is a phenomenal little bullet.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Awesome. Thanks for your response. That’s what I was leaning towards but had seen several good reports on both.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have 62 gr federal fusions and 75gr eldm. I plan on using these on SE whitetail and range practice. Which would be better for Whitetail deer hunting?

Either will work fine, however like PathFinder I would choose the 75gr ELD-M.

 

[270quest]

So my very recoil sensitive daughter who just turned 10, drew an antelope tag here in Idaho and feels way more comfortable with the 18” AR then the 243 we built for her. She is really just learning to shoot and I haven’t had time to create reduced practice loads for her….

So I acquired some black hills 77TMK factory ammo and sighted it in and shot it over the chronograph. 10 rounds averaged 2720 FPS from the little 18” barrel.

She is able to consistently hit an 8” gong out to about 200 yards with this little rifle - I think if she does her job - she will kill an antelope next month.

 

[woods89]

I'd greatly appreciate sources for this.

Jim Heffelfinger has in interesting article in Deer&Deer hunting (last November, I think?) on this subject. Don't ask me to link it as I'm not sure how, lol! Search "Jim Heffelfinger lead bullet" and it should pop up.

I haven't seen anything about jacketed lead bullets that scares me. I'm much more bothered by Doritos and soda. To each his own, though.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Sorry to divert away from lead acetate/chemistry/copper/etc . But I have 62 gr federal fusions and 75gr eldm. I plan on using these on SE whitetail and range practice. Which would be better for Whitetail deer hunting? I know 77 TMKs would be better but that’s not an option for me at the moment.

I can't speak for the match bullet, but the Fusion is a decidedly good killer. Expect pass throughs on broadside shots. Wrecked innards. Tough enough to bust bone and make it to vitals.

 

[TxxAgg]

Jim Heffelfinger has in interesting article in Deer&Deer hunting (last November, I think?) on this subject. Don't ask me to link it as I'm not sure how, lol! Search "Jim Heffelfinger lead bullet" and it should pop up.

I haven't seen anything about jacketed lead bullets that scares me. I'm much more bothered by Doritos and soda. To each his own, though.

Here you go:

Health Risks of Lead in Venison: Gray Toxin or Red Herring? | Deer & Deer Hunting

Find out if bird biologists' concerns about the effects of lead in venison on human health are legitimate or just an effort to save birds.

www.deeranddeerhunting.com

 

[ElPollo]

Great article. Jim did an excellent job of presenting the facts and the context. Can’t believe I missed this one when it came out last year. Thanks.

 

[Hthunter]

I can't speak for the match bullet, but the Fusion is a decidedly good killer. Expect pass throughs on broadside shots. Wrecked innards. Tough enough to bust bone and make it to vitals.

Thanks. I’ve used fusions bf in 300 wsm and it was pretty devastating. I figure I’ll try both and test results on a couple does first.

 

[260madman]

As far as ingesting lead I wouldn’t worry about it. I have a .177 pointed pellet in my hand for the last 33 years and have no issues. Dumb stuff as kids. Docs wouldn’t operate on it to get it out. Surgeon said just leave it like they did in the Civil War. So they did. The weight of that pellet is probably more than the weight of lead an average Hunter would ingest over a lifetime.

 

[Tod osier]

As far as ingesting lead I wouldn’t worry about it. I have a .177 pointed pellet in my hand for the last 33 years and have no issues. Dumb stuff as kids. Docs wouldn’t operate on it to get it out. Surgeon said just leave it like they did in the Civil War. So they did. The weight of that pellet is probably more than the weight of lead an average Hunter would ingest over a lifetime.

It is a common medical practice to leave bullets in place, the thought is that removal can be more damaging than leaving it there. It also depends on the tissue the bullet is buried in. A bullet within muscle is considered low risk because there are not appropriate conditions for dissolving the lead (unlike the acidic conditions in a mammal digestive system or with the mechanical grinding within a bird gizzard).

People carrying retained bullets absolutely can have elevated blood levels due to retained bullets and there are extensive studies documenting that. If you don't have one done every few years, think about a blood test at some point.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

As of right now, Midway has TMK 77s in stock.

 

[260madman]

I ordered from Midsouth last week and Midway last night. Let’s see which one gets here first. I’m betting Midway delivers first.