.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[ianpadron]

I ordered some of the 77 OTM and I got the new "slow" ammo that was only 2550 fps. Not really what I was looking for. I ordered some of the Bone Frog 77 OTM and haven't shot it yet but it is supposed to be good also.

Jay

I didn't know there was a new iteration, I bought an obscene amount a couple years back and it all does just shy of 2750 fps with the 22" barrel. 2550 would be a major bummer

 

[The Guide]

I didn't know there was a new iteration, I bought an obscene amount a couple years back and it all does just shy of 2750 fps with the 22" barrel. 2550 would be a major bummer

https://palmettostatearmory.com/aac-5-56-nato-ammo-77-grain-otm-20rds-v2.html

It is even advertised as such...


Jay

 

[EuroOptic]

Lets see what all this hype is about..
-Jake

 

[LimeSpoon]

Out of curiosity, what problem are you solving for using small calibers on large game? Is this for a small framed shooter or something else? I ask as I personally would not consider this proper, common practice or recommended by those with elk experience.

Honest question. Not trolling you.
Thanks

I think a better question to ask would be, what problem am I solving - or what advantages am I gaining - by using a larger caliber?

Assuming terminal and external ballistics are close enough to equally satisfactory either way, there is little compelling reason to use the larger round. Why would I accept more recoil, more weight, a larger platform, and more flash, blast, and noise just to get the same results?

As the smaller calibers' confidence of penetration and/or broadness of wounding and/or long range ballistics become increasingly less desirable for the task and target at hand, the appeal of the larger calibers increases, but you ought to think critically about the overall balance of factors before deciding upon what you believe to be the best rounded loading.

If you want to argue that the smaller caliber is not just suboptimal but outright inadequate in the face of other evidence, then people are going to expect you to justify your position with something better than appeals to tradition, manliness, ft lbs energy, etc.

The other thing...many people who use larger calibers don't actually capitalize on their potential to begin with. There is frequently more difference within a caliber than there is between calibers. If you use a bullet in a larger caliber that is less terminally efficient than another design of projectile in a smaller caliber, then the latter may very well do similar or more damage and thus I have a hard time seeing the former as being something other than a waste.

 

[KHntr]

The main issue as near as I can tell, when you get someone questioning the effectiveness of the mouse rifles, is that they have a deeply ingrained belief that the small cartridges simply can’t be as effective as they are, because they KNOW it deep inside.
I see it on a couple of canuck boards that I frequent. The sheer disbelief that anything can do as well as a good ol’ 7 remmie mag on whitetails at 150 yards. In fact, a 270 is probably not quite enough gun and you should step up to a more powerful cartridge girlie.

It’s pretty funny to watch, in a sad way.

 

[WhoGarrDen]

The main issue as near as I can tell, when you get someone questioning the effectiveness of the mouse rifles, is that they have a deeply ingrained belief that the small cartridges simply can’t be as effective as they are, because they KNOW it deep inside.
I see it on a couple of canuck boards that I frequent. The sheer disbelief that anything can do as well as a good ol’ 7 remmie mag on whitetails at 150 yards. In fact, a 270 is probably not quite enough gun and you should step up to a more powerful cartridge girlie.

It’s pretty funny to watch, in a sad way.

Received a call about my son drawing into a youth hunt, and they asked "out of curiosity" what cartridge he was shooting. They were relieve to hear he had a .243 because "223's typically result in the deer running a lot further". Perhaps I should link them this thread.

 

[Nine Banger]

Received a call about my son drawing into a youth hunt, and they asked "out of curiosity" what cartridge he was shooting. They were relieve to hear he had a .243 because "223's typically result in the deer running a lot further". Perhaps I should link them this thread.

A state employee?

 

[BLJ]

I wonder if they would have been as relieved if you said 375 RUM?

Just can’t win with those guys.

 

[WhoGarrDen]

A state employee?

Actually it was a member of USACE. While most controlled hunts in our state are held on state-managed lands, there are a few USACE areas (typically along water bodies) that host youth hunts.

 

[WhoGarrDen]

I wonder if they would have been as relieved if you said 375 RUM?

Just can’t win with those guys.

Should have put this into a single reply to save space. I'm interested to see what the 95gr ballistic silvertips do this year (no real difference from 95gr ballistic tips, but my son LOVES the look of them). Shots will be 70-200yds...I'm almost scared to see what happens at 243 velocities at 70yds. I'm not the least bit worried about dead or not, but whether or not we come home with any meat on the front half.

 

[BLJ]

What is USACE and what are you hunting?

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

United States Army Corps of Engineers

 

[3gunyotehtr]

Shooting Times had a pretty decent writeup on using the 223 on big game. Definitely becoming more mainstream.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Shooting Times had a pretty decent writeup on using the 223 on big game. Definitely becoming more mainstream.

Looks like that's authored by our very own @Thegman

 

[Thegman]

Looks like that's authored by our very own @Thegman

Thanks for the heads-up...I was wondering what happened to that one...

 

[cowdisciple]

Received a call about my son drawing into a youth hunt, and they asked "out of curiosity" what cartridge he was shooting. They were relieve to hear he had a .243 because "223's typically result in the deer running a lot further". Perhaps I should link them this thread.

Makes you wonder how many of those .223s are shooting 55gr FMJ.

 

[FaaSamoa]

Yes. I got around 1.5”’for 20 rounds, low 2600s from 18” barrel. Good for the price imo

same here, not sure velo.

I’m running a 20 in barrel out of t3x and getting 1.5 with 20-30 round groups

 

[Yooper25]

We were able to get a couple kills with the tikka. Caribou was 150 yards away quartering to. Shot hit the back of the onside lung. Caribou went about 40 yards and laid down and died. Sheep was 286 yards at a bit more than a 45 degree downhill angle. Shot went in the spine just above the shoulder and into the offside lung. Sheep was DRT. Used 73 eld m hand loads for both.

 

[ianpadron]

View attachment 922818View attachment 922819View attachment 922820
We were able to get a couple kills with the tikka. Caribou was 150 yards away quartering to. Shot hit the back of the onside lung. Caribou went about 40 yards and laid down and died. Sheep was 286 yards at a bit more than a 45 degree downhill angle. Shot went in the spine just above the shoulder and into the offside lung. Sheep was DRT. Used 73 eld m hand loads for both.

Siiiiiiick

Nice work team

 

[kingruin12]

I've gotten about halfway through the 560 pages of this thread and have been lurking for some time. I'm convinced enough to try it out and hang up the 6.5PRC for a bit. I was able to pick up 300 77gr tmk rounds at my local store for about $105 and will try to get to reloading those soon. The evidence on terminal performance is impressive, but the training aspect of using a .223 is what really convinced me.

New scope on the way (RS1.2, already have one), suppressor on the way (UM/US Reaper), just can't seem to find a stainless Tikka T3x .223 anywhere for sale that's not $900. My wife isn't overly sold on the whole idea and the money it's costing us lol. Eventually I'll have the RSS up and running.

Thanks for the interesting read and all the info you guys have put into this over the years.