.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[khuber84]

You might also check out the 22CM thread since your 22-250 will be very similar. Could even ream your 22-250 to a 22CM if you want better ammo selection.

Here’s a post from the thread to get you started down another rabbit hole…

Post in thread 'The 22 creedmoor thread'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/the-22-creedmoor-thread.299646/post-3906639

22gt load data is pretty much identical to the 22-250, they're near same capacity. The creed holds 6-7 more grains, or roughly 15%.

 

[Deere_Man]

First time poster. I had been pondering a fast twist 22-250 for a few weeks. I was deciding between a 1in 9 Bergara and the 1in 8 twist Tikka. I’ve owned both brands in other calibers in the paste past and had favorable experiences with both. I decided on the Tikka and while searching for a 1 in 8 Tikka 22-250 this “crazy” thread titled 223 for bear deer elk and moose.

Before clicking on it, I am telling myself this can go one of two ways. One, it is an over exaggerated post complaining about people shooting game animals with 223 and other 22 caliber centerfire rifles. Or two, it is some guy out there theorizing how a 223 “could” possibly kill bigger animals. I immediately was sucked into the rabbit hole. (Full disclosure: I have killed a pickup full of deer here in Texas with a 1 in 14 22-250 and 55 grain SP bullets over the last three decades. I have killed a freight train full of hogs with a 223…so I have experience with the concept).

I have never considered the 1,000 ft pounds of energy business meaningful in any way. I have killed too many big hogs with 45-70 subsonics as well as 45 Colt rounds limping along at 900 fps to know that it is not required. Anyway, I spent most of my Labor Day weekend in this thread and I managed to kill one hog too with a new 25-06. Way over gunned but it was very successful. I made it to page 113 and decided to register.

My new Tikka should arrive in three days. I started this post in a Cabelas parking lot after picking up their last 3 boxes of 77 TMKs and 50 new pieces of 22-250 brass. I have a 1 in 7 twist 5.56 AR and 100 pieces of Starline brass that will also be coming out of retirement. I had moved over to a 6.8 SPC but I am happy to be moving back. I love the 6.8 but the brass flying in a field at night while laying down fire on a sounder of hogs gets to me. The brass is expensive vs the 223/5.56. Question, I am thinking about keeping the 77TMK around 3200 fps but if I find the accuracy is at a higher pace, say 3400, will that extra velocity put too much stress on the bullet and not get me to the vitals?

Anyway, here is to the greatest thread on the interwebs and I can’t wait to learn more.

Nice find. The rabbit hole runs deep! So is your only 223 the ar-15? What does that setup look like? Scope?

 

[BOLIO]

Nice find. The rabbit hole runs deep! So is your only 223 the ar-15? What does that setup look like? Scope?

It is an accurate but inexpensive ZroDelta with a 1 in 7 twist. I upgraded the trigger with a Timney but it is bone stock otherwise. I rotate optics on it. I have a AGM Thermal, a DNT Night vision and a Leupold 2.5-8-36 that have all made the rounds on it. I loaded up three different recipes with the 77 TMK last night. I also loaded up three different loads for the 22-250 so I will be ready to go when it arrives in a few days.

I am also thinking about getting a lightweight Howa in 223. I enjoy the AR platform just fine. It is very effective when you encounter a sounder of hogs but it is not as enjoyable, to me, compared to a bolt action. Just my opinion.

Also, I am trying to make my Tikka a true Rokslide special with a 6x42 SWFA but for the life of me I cannot find one.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Also, I am trying to make my Tikka a true Rokslide special with a 6x42 SWFA but for the life of me I cannot find one.

Keep an eye on the classifieds here. If you are sharp, they pop up fairly often. And the 10x is also really good.

 

[Capt.Gene]

Just because I can do it doesn’t necessarily make it my best decision!
I moved off my 223 to a Ruger 22 Arc in a chassis man this thing really shoots like a laser but I decided against deer hunting with it this year. Only because my 6.5 Creedmoor is even better in every measurable except recoil.

 

[Capt.Gene]

Just because I can do it doesn’t necessarily make it my best decision!
I moved off my 223 to a Ruger 22 Arc in a chassis man this thing really shoots like a laser but I decided against deer hunting with it this year. Only because my 6.5 Creedmoor is even better in every measurable except recoil.

 

[Deere_Man]

It is an accurate but inexpensive ZroDelta with a 1 in 7 twist. I upgraded the trigger with a Timney but it is bone stock otherwise. I rotate optics on it. I have a AGM Thermal, a DNT Night vision and a Leupold 2.5-8-36 that have all made the rounds on it. I loaded up three different recipes with the 77 TMK last night. I also loaded up three different loads for the 22-250 so I will be ready to go when it arrives in a few days.

I am also thinking about getting a lightweight Howa in 223. I enjoy the AR platform just fine. It is very effective when you encounter a sounder of hogs but it is not as enjoyable, to me, compared to a bolt action. Just my opinion.

Also, I am trying to make my Tikka a true Rokslide special with a 6x42 SWFA but for the life of me I cannot find one.

Cool. I had a 10X SWFA, but I was not impressed with the reticle in low light. I’m still in search of a decently priced scope that dials well, and has an illuminated reticle. The top of the list currently is the Athlon Helos BTR 2-12X.

https://www.eurooptic.com/athlon-helos-btr-gen2-2-12x42mm-ahmr2-ffp-ir-mil-riflescope-214105

 

[Harvey_NW]

Question, I am thinking about keeping the 77TMK around 3200 fps but if I find the accuracy is at a higher pace, say 3400

Welcome! Since you came for the barn burners, typically this isn't a thing and dispersion will be equal or less with the slower load. It stems from small sample sizes (3-5 shot OCW/ladder/whatever tests) that have too much variability. In most cases, seating depth changes, tiny powder charge iterations, etc., will have no affect on the actual precision of the load. If you want good results, shoot larger sample sizes. 10 is the magic Rokslide number. Looking forward to seeing your results!

 

[BOLIO]

Welcome! Since you came for the barn burners, typically this isn't a thing and dispersion will be equal or less with the slower load. It stems from small sample sizes (3-5 shot OCW/ladder/whatever tests) that have too much variability. In most cases, seating depth changes, tiny powder charge iterations, etc., will have no affect on the actual precision of the load. If you want good results, shoot larger sample sizes. 10 is the magic Rokslide number. Looking forward to seeing your results!

Thanks. Right now I have them at 2.6 oal but really I have no idea what I will be able to stuff in the magazine. I am only on page 130 of this thread but have been very impressed with the performance of the 223 level velocities. I have never hotrodded any caliber just for the sake of velocity but some of my rifles love max loads or close to it and that is what I go with…wherever the accuracy takes me. Anyway, Sierra is showing a max load of 3500 with h4350. Out of a 22” barrel I am guessing it will be around 3400 or high 3300’s.

I shoot 168 grain eldm out of 30-06 and 308. I can tell a difference on game between the two when shots are under 100 yards. The higher 30-06 velocity is much more explosive inside the deer or pig. It puts a lot of stress on that bullet. They kill great. I have at least 50 hogs and a dozen deer with that bullet. I hope the 77 TMK kills very well and my torn rotator cuff will be very happy too. Thanks again to everyone’s contributions to this thread.

 

[nm.otter]

22gt load data is pretty much identical to the 22-250, they're near same capacity. The creed holds 6-7 more grains, or roughly 15%.

The Relative column below shows percentages based on .223 capacity. Nose figures are based on SAAMI cartridge specs:

N

Post in thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.'

Jun 28, 2025

In both cartridges the base of an 88 gr. ELDM will protrude some into the case body, much worse with the 223 unless a really long OAL is possible. The 22 ARC at standard Mag length still has the same issue just not as bad.

This is part of what's piqued my curiosity about .22 GT. The Nose column below shows the available length from the front of the neck to the tip of the bullet:

• nm.otter

 

[wind gypsy]

The Relative column below shows percentages based on .223 capacity. Nose figures are based on SAAMI chamber specs:

N

Post in thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.'

Jun 28, 2025

In both cartridges the base of an 88 gr. ELDM will protrude some into the case body, much worse with the 223 unless a really long OAL is possible. The 22 ARC at standard Mag length still has the same issue just not as bad.

This is part of what's piqued my curiosity about .22 GT. The Nose column below shows the available length from the front of the neck to the tip of the bullet:

• nm.otter

SAAMI ammo specs, not chamber. There is nothing about a SAAMI chamber spec limiting the nose length of a bullet.

Where did you get the case capacity #s?

 

[hunterjmj]

Just got a case of 55gr blitzing ADI ammo. Pretty cheap practice ammo. 200 rounds total for $139. These will be great practice for the kids on prairie dogs

 

[khuber84]

The Relative column below shows percentages based on .223 capacity. Nose figures are based on SAAMI chamber specs:

N

Post in thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.'

Jun 28, 2025

In both cartridges the base of an 88 gr. ELDM will protrude some into the case body, much worse with the 223 unless a really long OAL is possible. The 22 ARC at standard Mag length still has the same issue just not as bad.

This is part of what's piqued my curiosity about .22 GT. The Nose column below shows the available length from the front of the neck to the tip of the bullet:

• nm.otter

My fired alpha 22gt brass holds 44.8 gr water. All can find is 22-250 is 45-46gr capacity. I don't have a fired one to weigh. I do know lapua 22cm brass that I made, holds 51.6gr water.

 

[nm.otter]

My fired alpha 22gt brass holds 44.8 gr water. All can find is 22-250 is 45-46gr capacity. I don't have a fired one to weigh. I do know lapua 22cm brass that I made, holds 51.6gr water.

Grains of water includes the case neck. Neck lengths vary even across cartridges of the same caliber, but as total capacity goes up, the percentage of that capacity taken up by the neck decreases quite a bit. Capacities in the table are shown in cubic inches, and came from this.

I used 6mm GT capacity for the .22 GT line -- have yet to reverse engineer his work on that so I can arbitrarily include new cartridges. If I can find time this winter, the spreadsheet figures will be derived directly from published case drawings and thus easily tweaked to account for thicker brass, deeper bullet base incursions, etc.

The benefit of this from my perspective is the Ratio column: It' a dimensionless number -- you can start with inches or mm and get the same result.

 

[nm.otter]

SAAMI ammo specs, not chamber.

Fixed -- thank you.

 

[khuber84]

Grains of water includes the case neck. Neck lengths vary even across cartridges of the same caliber, but as total capacity goes up, the percentage of that capacity taken up by the neck decreases quite a bit. Capacities in the table are shown in cubic inches, and came from this.

I used 6mm GT capacity for the .22 GT line -- have yet to reverse engineer his work on that so I can arbitrarily include new cartridges. If I can find time this winter, the spreadsheet figures will be derived directly from published case drawings and thus easily tweaked to account for thicker brass, deeper bullet base incursions, etc.

The benefit of this from my perspective is the Ratio column: It' a dimensionless number -- you can start with inches or mm and get the same result.

You'd better factor in how much case capacity you lose by seating a long heavy bullet down into the shoulder on the 22-250 as well then if your gonna hold the higher volume neck against the 22gt. It's the same thing man........you're making it harder than it is.

 

[nm.otter]

That's getting into reloading data, which was not my intent.

I wanted a way to compare cartridge designs that would enable my engineer brain to deconstruct vague terms like "more efficient", "overbore", "barrel burner" and the like.

 

[Georgedubya]

Little more info in here for those interested.

 

[wind gypsy]

That's getting into reloading data, which was not my intent.

I wanted a way to compare cartridge designs that would enable my engineer brain to deconstruct vague terms like "more efficient", "overbore", "barrel burner" and the like.

This way of looking at it significantly skews the value of the results as evidenced in the 22-250 vs 22 GT comparison. Backfire's way of calculating case capacity contributes to error vs actual measured h20 capacity. Second, to discard neck volume but consider nose length is odd especially when the two are closely related in concert with COAL constraints. COAL constraints in the case of these two cartridges dont even exist because they are both well short of most any short action magazine configuration.

It's probably a pretty fair way to compare lots of cartridges but in the case of 22 gt and 22-250, it provides some misleading take aways.

 

[C_chats_choots]

Been checking in on this thread for a while, so figured I’d join and post one. This is from 2020, but was Black Hills 77gr TMK from a 10.5” barrel. 90ish pound Louisiana whitetail, shot was at 50 yards, she ran hard and piled up after about 50 yards. Absolutely zero blood trail that I could find, but some blood around where she piled up. Looked like the core exited, and I found the jacket on the inside of the ribs of the far side. I never chrono’d this, but I’m figuring about 2300fps impact velocity based on figures I found on some other forums. I’ve worked up some TMK handloads and plan to primarily hunt with my 16” AR this year.


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