.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Georgedubya]

In case it is helpful, I have been putting together a spreadsheet of approximate speeds, group sizes, etc. for various factory 223 rounds. Take the group size with a huge grain of salt. All shot very well, and only for a few did I measure with great precision. This should all be regarded as indicative.

All shots were taken with two factory 20” Tikkas (the “Ranahan” model, with iron sights removed. A picture of the two rifles in question is attached. Ignore the wonky mount on the one in the KRG. That scope doesn’t live on that particular rifle.

Speeds were chronographed with the Garmin. Elevation is just above sea level.

I plan to add to this over time.

(Strangely, the Hornady Superformance 223 loaded with 53 Vmax would not fire, despite the firing pin creating significant indentations in the primers. The same rounds would fire just fine in a friend’s AR. I’ll try another box at some point.)

All the best.

 

[ztc92]

If anyone is looking for XBR, they have a large supply at scheels in Billings. $60/pound or $42/pound if you buy an 8-pound jug…

 

[david2duck]

There’s 10 shots in this group. I wanted to get some solid velocity numbers for my boys gun. I shot 5 and he shot 5. He hit 3 in the bullseye and the 2 in the orange. All from about 60 yards. Not bad for a 5 1/2 year old.

16” tikka with a wolf hunter averaged 2630 for the AAC 75bthp.

 

[Georgedubya]

is bonefrog 77 tmk good to go in a Tikka? @Bluumoon @Ajsomp @Georgedubya @fwafwow
mine shoots blacks hills 77 tmk fine but looking for some reports on the bonefrog

Shoots great. Basically a substitute for Black Hills.

 

[The Guide]

Finally used up the rest of my first order of AAC 77tmk ammo and checked velocity on the second batch of 500 I bought. Almost the same velocity (2717 new vs 2714 old) and same POI. Put 10 into a 7" group at 510 yards from my Howa Mini Action 223 sporter barrel in a Bell and Carlson M40 Howa Mini Action stock with a Maven RS1.2 Mil/Mil in UM Premier scope rings.

I've been doing a bunch of shoot at last light since it seems like that is when i get most of my opportunities. Should be ready for early season damage hunts or early antlerless elk shoulder season.

Jay

 

[grfox92]

Finally used up the rest of my first order of AAC 77tmk ammo and checked velocity on the second batch of 500 I bought. Almost the same velocity (2717 new vs 2714 old) and same POI. Put 10 into a 7" group at 510 yards from my Howa Mini Action 223 sporter barrel in a Bell and Carlson M40 Howa Mini Action stock with a Maven RS1.2 Mil/Mil in UM Premier scope rings.

I've been doing a bunch of shoot at last light since it seems like that is when i get most of my opportunities. Should be ready for early season damage hunts or early antlerless elk shoulder season.

Jay

View attachment 920348
View attachment 920349

Hows the barrel? Do groups open up with heat? Not sure if Howas barrels are truly hammer forged or if they are inconsistent.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[The Guide]

Hows the barrel? Do groups open up with heat? Not sure if Howas barrels are truly hammer forged or if they are inconsistent.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

I have one 22" sporter barrel and two 20" heavy barrel rifles. In my experience, they are sub 1" barrels for 5 rounds, sub 1.5" barrels on 10 rounds, and sub 2" barrels on 20 shots. It really all depends upon the shooter and how they are setup. Mine seem to like to be shot suppressed better than bare barreled but that is a trend I'm seeing across all my rifles.

Jay

 

[ianpadron]

Hows the barrel? Do groups open up with heat? Not sure if Howas barrels are truly hammer forged or if they are inconsistent.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

I've shot my Mini in 223 many times to the point where you can't touch the barrel or suppressor, and the only reason I slow down is due to mirage off the can, and it remains a 1.5" gun, shoots particularly well with 77 grain AAC OTMs.

 

[The Guide]

I've shot my Mini in 223 many times to the point where you can't touch the barrel or suppressor, and the only reason I slow down is due to mirage off the can, and it remains a 1.5" gun, shoots particularly well with 77 grain AAC OTMs.

I ordered some of the 77 OTM and I got the new "slow" ammo that was only 2550 fps. Not really what I was looking for. I ordered some of the Bone Frog 77 OTM and haven't shot it yet but it is supposed to be good also.

Jay

 

[ianpadron]

I ordered some of the 77 OTM and I got the new "slow" ammo that was only 2550 fps. Not really what I was looking for. I ordered some of the Bone Frog 77 OTM and haven't shot it yet but it is supposed to be good also.

Jay

I didn't know there was a new iteration, I bought an obscene amount a couple years back and it all does just shy of 2750 fps with the 22" barrel. 2550 would be a major bummer

 

[The Guide]

I didn't know there was a new iteration, I bought an obscene amount a couple years back and it all does just shy of 2750 fps with the 22" barrel. 2550 would be a major bummer

https://palmettostatearmory.com/aac-5-56-nato-ammo-77-grain-otm-20rds-v2.html

It is even advertised as such...


Jay

 

[EuroOptic]

Lets see what all this hype is about..
-Jake

 

[LimeSpoon]

Out of curiosity, what problem are you solving for using small calibers on large game? Is this for a small framed shooter or something else? I ask as I personally would not consider this proper, common practice or recommended by those with elk experience.

Honest question. Not trolling you.
Thanks

I think a better question to ask would be, what problem am I solving - or what advantages am I gaining - by using a larger caliber?

Assuming terminal and external ballistics are close enough to equally satisfactory either way, there is little compelling reason to use the larger round. Why would I accept more recoil, more weight, a larger platform, and more flash, blast, and noise just to get the same results?

As the smaller calibers' confidence of penetration and/or broadness of wounding and/or long range ballistics become increasingly less desirable for the task and target at hand, the appeal of the larger calibers increases, but you ought to think critically about the overall balance of factors before deciding upon what you believe to be the best rounded loading.

If you want to argue that the smaller caliber is not just suboptimal but outright inadequate in the face of other evidence, then people are going to expect you to justify your position with something better than appeals to tradition, manliness, ft lbs energy, etc.

The other thing...many people who use larger calibers don't actually capitalize on their potential to begin with. There is frequently more difference within a caliber than there is between calibers. If you use a bullet in a larger caliber that is less terminally efficient than another design of projectile in a smaller caliber, then the latter may very well do similar or more damage and thus I have a hard time seeing the former as being something other than a waste.

 

[KHntr]

The main issue as near as I can tell, when you get someone questioning the effectiveness of the mouse rifles, is that they have a deeply ingrained belief that the small cartridges simply can’t be as effective as they are, because they KNOW it deep inside.
I see it on a couple of canuck boards that I frequent. The sheer disbelief that anything can do as well as a good ol’ 7 remmie mag on whitetails at 150 yards. In fact, a 270 is probably not quite enough gun and you should step up to a more powerful cartridge girlie.

It’s pretty funny to watch, in a sad way.

 

[WhoGarrDen]

The main issue as near as I can tell, when you get someone questioning the effectiveness of the mouse rifles, is that they have a deeply ingrained belief that the small cartridges simply can’t be as effective as they are, because they KNOW it deep inside.
I see it on a couple of canuck boards that I frequent. The sheer disbelief that anything can do as well as a good ol’ 7 remmie mag on whitetails at 150 yards. In fact, a 270 is probably not quite enough gun and you should step up to a more powerful cartridge girlie.

It’s pretty funny to watch, in a sad way.

Received a call about my son drawing into a youth hunt, and they asked "out of curiosity" what cartridge he was shooting. They were relieve to hear he had a .243 because "223's typically result in the deer running a lot further". Perhaps I should link them this thread.

 

[Nine Banger]

Received a call about my son drawing into a youth hunt, and they asked "out of curiosity" what cartridge he was shooting. They were relieve to hear he had a .243 because "223's typically result in the deer running a lot further". Perhaps I should link them this thread.

A state employee?

 

[BLJ]

I wonder if they would have been as relieved if you said 375 RUM?

Just can’t win with those guys.

 

[WhoGarrDen]

A state employee?

Actually it was a member of USACE. While most controlled hunts in our state are held on state-managed lands, there are a few USACE areas (typically along water bodies) that host youth hunts.

 

[WhoGarrDen]

I wonder if they would have been as relieved if you said 375 RUM?

Just can’t win with those guys.

Should have put this into a single reply to save space. I'm interested to see what the 95gr ballistic silvertips do this year (no real difference from 95gr ballistic tips, but my son LOVES the look of them). Shots will be 70-200yds...I'm almost scared to see what happens at 243 velocities at 70yds. I'm not the least bit worried about dead or not, but whether or not we come home with any meat on the front half.

 

[BLJ]

What is USACE and what are you hunting?