.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[fshaw]

Looks like Varget will be the best powder for me as well, somewhere in the 23.5-24 grain range. It also looks like I have one of the earlier Montanas that is going to take a bit of work to get sorted out to shoot well. Random flyers. Disappointing but I like the rifle so I'll do/have done the required work. I'll be starting with a bedding job and hope that does it. May end up with an 8 twist factory contour on it before it's all over. Hope not though. Anyone rebarreled one or have a barrel recommendation? I have a couple of Hart barrels on other rifles that have not disappointed.

 

[260madman]

Mag box binding?

 

[fshaw]

Thanks 260, I'll be checking/fixing that when I bed it.

 

[Lawnboi]

@Formidilosus

What are you seeing for round counts to burn out a tikka factory lite barrel?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus

What are you seeing for round counts to burn out a tikka factory lite barrel?

No clue. I’ve seen a bunch and while some have been rebarreled none were due to being shot out. My original T3 had a bit over 14k verified rounds on it (without so much as a patch through it) and had opened up from .7 moa when new to 1.4’ish moa- both are average for ten rounds groups. I was looking at replacement after the season, but had the barrel threaded for a can, and it went right back to sub moa for ten rounds.

 

[TheGDog]

Been a minute since I've been back to this thread.
QUESTION RE: Black Bear - Given distances like under 200yd thereabouts, something like a 62gr Barnes TTSX round should probably be able to do the job sufficiently right? I feel totally certain it'd work on our SoCal Muleys. But I've also seen how damn big things like Bear upper arm bones can be in diameter. (Have one in my Garden I brought back from D13 that's something like 4" in diameter at some of the thickest points!!! I know obviously the answer there is avoid hitting those arms, duh, but got me to thinking I wonder how tough some of those ribs or scapulas might deflect the round or slow down it's energy a lot so it might not penetrate as deeply as you'd have expected perhaps?

I mean the rule is supposed to be that if it'll kill a deer it'll kill a bear right?, so a 55gr should work likely also. But at least I've seen what those 62gr can do to a BobCat's spine, so I feel more confident because of the impressive wounding from that. In my instance it took out a whole section of it's spine! Maybe... 2" diameter crater left where the vertebrae used to be at that spot. And vertebrae are typically some pretty tough bones since each one is small and blocky/chunky in structure.

 

[Jim1187]

Been a minute since I've been back to this thread.
QUESTION RE: Black Bear - Given distances like under 200yd thereabouts, something like a 62gr Barnes TTSX round should probably be able to do the job sufficiently right? I feel totally certain it'd work on our SoCal Muleys. But I've also seen how damn big things like Bear upper arm bones can be in diameter. (Have one in my Garden I brought back from D13 that's something like 4" in diameter at some of the thickest points!!! I know obviously the answer there is avoid hitting those arms, duh, but got me to thinking I wonder how tough some of those ribs or scapulas might deflect the round or slow down it's energy a lot so it might not penetrate as deeply as you'd have expected perhaps?

I mean the rule is supposed to be that if it'll kill a deer it'll kill a bear right?, so a 55gr should work likely also. But at least I've seen what those 62gr can do to a BobCat's spine, so I feel more confident because of the impressive wounding from that. In my instance it took out a whole section of it's spine! Maybe... 2" diameter crater left where the vertebrae used to be at that spot. And vertebrae are typically some pretty tough bones since each one is small and blocky/chunky in structure.

If you're confident in your ability to place it and required to go lead free it isn't a bad choice. My experiences shooting black bears with .224 diameter X bullets is limited to a half dozen mostly with the 50 grain TTSX tight behind the shoulder shots resulted in an average dead run of about 40 yards with disappointing bloodtrails fortunately I was shooting them in agricultural fields and heavy cover was not reached.
Most of the bears where average size, 150-200lbs and all were shot between 30 and 170 yards. If I set out looking to shoot bears with an expanding solid I'm reaching past the .22's and grabbing a larger rifle, for bigger and leakier exits cause big bears like thick cover around here.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

No clue. I’ve seen a bunch and while some have been rebarreled none were due to being shot out. My original T3 had a bit over 14k verified rounds on it (without so much as a patch through it) and had opened up from .7 moa when new to 1.4’ish moa- both are average for ten rounds groups. I was looking at replacement after the season, but had the barrel threaded for a can, and it went right back to sub moa for ten rounds.

Did you get it cut down as well? If so what length

 

[Formidilosus]

Did you get it cut down as well? If so what length

Only about half an inch due to it being a fluted barrel. I wanted to go 20”. I’m over long barrels.

 

[TheGDog]

If you're confident in your ability to place it and required to go lead free it isn't a bad choice. My experiences shooting black bears with .224 diameter X bullets is limited to a half dozen mostly with the 50 grain TTSX tight behind the shoulder shots resulted in an average dead run of about 40 yards with disappointing bloodtrails fortunately I was shooting them in agricultural fields and heavy cover was not reached.
Most of the bears where average size, 150-200lbs and all were shot between 30 and 170 yards. If I set out looking to shoot bears with an expanding solid I'm reaching past the .22's and grabbing a larger rifle, for bigger and leakier exits cause big bears like thick cover around here.

Cool! Thanks man. I kind of wanted to know the opinions since I may end up being with the boy when one comes along. So was curious to know if we had the .223 Rem with us so he'd be able to possibly take the shot on a deer... if it'd be reasonable enough to allow him to attempt to place it on the bear. Taking into consideration the hunting location I'm thinking of, that distance of a run would be no problem, in terms of him reaching some ungodly thick stuff out of my line of sight.

I've had an instance of zero blood-trail even with a .30-30 on a nice-sized buck! Very angled-in shot on a Muley. About 24" of penetration, found bullet just under the hide under opposite side shoulder blade. There was no blood trail. And he only had one side of antlers, so when and where he fell, I didn't at first see him in there, because there wasn't an other side antler sticking up into the air. Actually had to make a couple passes at the area before I saw him, because of how the antler wasn't sticking up, and how well his coloration blended in with the leaves on the ground.

 

[Juan_ID]

Those of you that reload the tmk’s are you needing to load them long like the eldm’s or can you go stock mag length and get decent accuracy/velocity?

 

[Formidilosus]

Those of you that reload the tmk’s are you needing to load them long like the eldm’s or can you go stock mag length and get decent accuracy/velocity?

They’re all mag length. That’s what they were designed for.

 

[Juan_ID]

They’re all mag length. That’s what they were designed for.

I’ve just seen a few remarks that some are loading long, anyhow I’d really like to get my hands on some dang tmk’s. I found some factory loaded tmk’s that I’m debating on but doubt it’s anywhere near as fast as the black hills and others.

 

[Lawnboi]

Those of you that reload the tmk’s are you needing to load them long like the eldm’s or can you go stock mag length and get decent accuracy/velocity?

I’m loading long, .020 off the lands. That’s where I started and never had to mess with seating depth.

 

[Fatcamp]

I’ve just seen a few remarks that some are loading long, anyhow I’d really like to get my hands on some dang tmk’s. I found some factory loaded tmk’s that I’m debating on but doubt it’s anywhere near as fast as the black hills and others.

I have some TMK's I will sell you. No way I will set up .223 this year

 

[Juan_ID]

I have some TMK's I will sell you. No way I will set up .223 this year

Pm sent

I’m loading long, .020 off the lands. That’s where I started and never had to mess with seating depth.

Only reason I’d like them mag length is so I could buy a couple extra factory tikka mags and not have to go aftermarket.

 

[Lawnboi]

Pm sent

Only reason I’d like them mag length is so I could buy a couple extra factory tikka mags and not have to go aftermarket.

Give it a go and see what happens. My only thought on mag length is if you’re using varget your going to have some serious crunch to make 2750 FPS. Grab a long drop tube funnel to help settle the powder.

 

[Juan_ID]

Give it a go and see what happens. My only thought on mag length is if you’re using varget your going to have some serious crunch to make 2750 FPS. Grab a long drop tube funnel to help settle the powder.

I am currently using Varget but also have some H4895 that I’ve read is good with the heavier projectiles. I did a pressure test with it but shot like garbage when I was testing a few loads. Went back to Varget and just loaded a handful of the charge that shot best for now.

 

[Lawnboi]

Is anyone loading 77tmk with xbr and getting what they got or more than with varget? I have 8lbs of xbr I havnt messed with much yet. Don’t know if it’s worth trying to fix what ain’t broken for an extra hundred FPS.

 

[Lawnboi]

Been a while since I loaded 223. Since Sierra isn’t making enough tmk I had to find another option for shooting steel. So I went back to 75 eldm. A few of my older eldm loads shot better suppressed, so I loaded up some more. At 400 yards they shot pretty well.

When the 77tmk become available again I’m going to buy a barrels worth.


Also ended up with 100 rounds of Lapua 223 55grain fmj off midway for 21 bucks a box. Going to burn them up and use the brass specifically for my tmk load, and continue to use Hornady for steel/prairie dog ammo.