.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[LaHunter]

I shot a cow elk at about 50 yards with an AR. It was at night so I had to hold a flashlight on it while shooting. Slightly uphill on an open slope above the highway. It was standing still with blood coming out it’s mouth before I shot. I shot several rounds and I remember it was still standing with blood coming out it’s mouth. It must of eventually tipped over as I don’t remember ever climbing up the bank to check on it. It wasn’t a challenging or hurried shot. It was duty ammo, so at that time I think we were issued a Winchester soft point.

I was underwhelmed by the results I saw, but I didn’t bother with examining the critter. The only time I really remember being impressed with the gun, was when I just got lucky and nailed a dog at a full run right behind a doe at about 150 yards on that same highway ironically.

is this a joke?

 

[Newtosavage]

I agree, but appeasing anti's and being ethical dont always go hand in hand.

The legitimate reason has already been discussed. Why do you assume his choice is based on an effort to prove anything? I'd say form's posts is plenty o' proof.

I never said "appease." My point was that we have an ethical responsibility as a group and should hold each other accountable so that nobody else has to.

Guess I missed the legitimate reason.

 

[260madman]

is this a joke?

My take from reading his experience is that he was a cop shooting an elk hit by a car? He stated using duty ammo.

 

[260madman]

I dunno, he has some good bulls with that old Sako in the pictures that have captions like “bull I shot with my 220 swift”....

I see he also shot a Buffalo with it.


My experience with 223s is with bolts and ARs using 53,62 tsx and 63sp on deer. They kill well and have only had a runner that went 40 yards. The rest were under 20.

I’ll be loading up some 60gr NBT and 75gr Hornady to try this year. I’m thinking the 60gr will be good in my 10.5” AR.

 

[wind gypsy]

Again I would ask, what's the point here? What are we trying to prove by choosing that caliber? Is there a legitimate reason for choosing that caliber? Seriously.

You ever shot steel with a 223 loaded up with 77 TMKs or similar? It’s downright pleasant and simple out to a little over 500 yards in light winds. I mean it’s more pleasant than my 14 lb 6.5x47 in regards to recoil and spotting impacts and it costs about half as much.

I admit I think elk is taking things a bit far because I wouldn’t want my shot selection that limited but on deer it makes perfect sense to me. Why does it need to be a proving something deal?

 

[mtmuley]

Glad I don't have a .223. Too much controversy. mtmuley

 

[Wrench]

If you can shoot like Pat, shoot like pat. He's killed more big bulls than most of us put together. He's worth listening to before criticizing.

 

[brisket]

I've taken whitetail and hogs with 64gr softpoints and 75 ELD's. I haven't had a problem with losing any game with 223. For me 223 limits distance, and I don't (haven't) tried breaking down shoulders with it - instead try to thread the bullet behind the shoulder.

That said, I don't like my AR as much as my bolt guns, so I don't practice with them as much. i.e. I'm not as confident in the system. I typically only bring the 223 AR on predator trips. I hunt medium game with larger cartridges in platforms that I shoot better

 

[dla]

If you can shoot like Pat, shoot like pat. He's killed more big bulls than most of us put together. He's worth listening to before criticizing.

You do realize that the 220 Swift and the 223 are miles apart - right? Don't confuse the two because they're the same caliber.

 

[204guy]

You do realize that the .223 pushes 75ish grain bullets right under 2900fps which is about optimum for cup and core bullet performance. And that pushing them at 3350+ or worse yet lighter bullets faster yet is not necessarily a good thing for big game. Right?

 

[KHntr]

You do realize that the 220 Swift and the 223 are miles apart - right? Don't confuse the two because they're the same caliber.

Not everyone understands how bullet composition and bc affect terminal performance, and thats ok.

I would take a 75 Amax at 2850-3150fps starting velocity over a 55 sp started at 3500+fps every day of the week, as the 75 is going to retain velocity better and dig deeper than the 55sp.

 

[LaHunter]

My take from reading his experience is that he was a cop shooting an elk hit by a car? He stated using duty ammo.

Gotcha

 

[Wrench]

You do realize that the 220 Swift and the 223 are miles apart - right? Don't confuse the two because they're the same caliber.

I do. I also know that he likely shot them at a range that put velocity on par.

 

[Wrench]

Not everyone understands how bullet composition and bc affect terminal performance, and thats ok.

I would take a 75 Amax at 2850-3150fps starting velocity over a 55 sp started at 3500+fps every day of the week, as the 75 is going to retain velocity better and dig deeper than the 55sp.

Exactly why the 270 was so deadly. EVERY bullet was made for its velocity window.

 

[dla]

I do. I also know that he likely shot them at a range that put velocity on par.

Hmmm, I read some of his exploits - he was sub-200yds. The guy is a hunter, not a sniper-wannabe.

 

[dla]

Not everyone understands how bullet composition and bc affect terminal performance, and thats ok.

I would take a 75 Amax at 2850-3150fps starting velocity over a 55 sp started at 3500+fps every day of the week, as the 75 is going to retain velocity better and dig deeper than the 55sp.

What cartridge is that?

 

[KHntr]

What cartridge is that?

223AI

 

[Newtosavage]

Exactly why the 270 was so deadly. EVERY bullet was made for its velocity window.

Velocity windows have an expiration length. Just sayin'.

 

[OXN939]

Nothing about those pics look minimal to me.

Still, like to see some elk data...

To jump in on said dumpster fire, my take is this:

Hunting big game with a .223 is the equivalent of all the IGFA 4, 6 and 8 pound test line class records. Can you spool a TLD 25 up with 8 pound test and catch a marlin? Yes. It is certainly possible. Is it less ethical? Probably. The fish caught that way are fought for many times as long as those caught with reasonable tackle, which correlates directly to a lower post-release survival rate.

Can you kill an elk with 77 gr. SMKs? Probably. In the above analogy, it's more like the 14 pound test, probably. But, .308 is 30 pound. You'll lose twice as many fish (elk) with 14 (.223) as you do by using the right gear. The difference between hunting and fishing is significant, too- if you're making the conscious decision to take an animal's life, I say you owe it to that animal to be as respectful and humane as you can be in that process.

My $0.02, worth what ya paid for it.

 

[dla]

Exactly why the 270 was so deadly. EVERY bullet was made for its velocity window.

Maybe more so now. I hunted deer with a 270Win in the 60's. 130gr Cup and core bullets @3000+fps. Learned to never put the shot into an area I want to eat. Very explosive. Even the 30-06 with 150gr c&p bullets was too explosive, so I stuck with 180gr.
I used to groan at the guys who would take shoulder shots.