.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[PNWGATOR]

No troll job here fellas. Simply sharing my journey and experience after a lot of questions, answers and truly listening to those with WAY more experience than me.

I don’t have any pictures of the wound channel on the bear I killed. Regret not taking any and next time will make time to do so. The damage was very similar to the picture posted of the whitetail buck with his right shoulder exposed. Bear went 30 yds tops. Devastating performance.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

 

[Blockcaver]

I was up bowhunting Central Canadian Barren Ground Caribou in central Nunavut in late October and had an interesting Inuit guide. He hunted wolves a lot and used a .204 Ruger. He also meat hunted caribou with the .204 as well. He was out hunting the week before I got there (mid-Oct) when he found a grizzly track in the snow. He tracked the bear and shot it with his .204. Said it took three shots to "calm him down". He use a left hand M77 Ruger with a 3-9X scope on it. He was using Winchester 34 gr HP factory ammo as far as I know. He really likes the .204 for wolves...no exit holes to sew up. Says he owns a .308 as well but never carries it. His assistant had a .222 Remington he hunted everything with....including 72 wolves the previous winter.

Another Inuit that I hunted with out of Resolute Bay, Nunavut in Feb 2018 did his Polar Bear hunting with a 222 Remington. I asked him what he aimed for and he indicated a heart shot, typically taken as a frontal since the bear knew he was there. He liked being at least 70 yards away. He bought the rifle when he was in high school and orders in a few hundred rounds of ammo periodically. Seems that the .222 is still popular way up North.

Not elk and not a .223 with a fast twist and heavy for caliber bullets, but you get the idea.

 

[Newtosavage]

Thank you for sharing. Please keep this thread up to date with your .223 kills. I'm pulling for you to get an elk with it, good luck!

Don't take this personally, but I don't understand this mindset. Why should we be pulling for someone to take an elk with a .223? What is there to prove and what is at stake?

I just don't get the mindset of operating at the margins ( Whether that be energy or distance) when it comes to live game, when we have the luxury of so many other better options. That's not the hunter code of ethics I was brought up by. Please explain how using a .223 on elk is more ethical and responsible than larger calibers. I'm not being a smarta$$ - that's a serious question. I would like to think we are all interested in the cleanest most ethical kill on behalf of the animal and on behalf of one another so as to represent hunters in the best light possible.

 

[MuleyFever]

Don't take this personally, but I don't understand this mindset. Why should we be pulling for someone to take an elk with a .223? What is there to prove and what is at stake?

I just don't get the mindset of operating at the margins ( Whether that be energy or distance) when it comes to live game, when we have the luxury of so many other better options. That's not the hunter code of ethics I was brought up by. Please explain how using a .223 on elk is more ethical and responsible than larger calibers. I'm not being a smarta$$ - that's a serious question. I would like to think we are all interested in the cleanest most ethical kill on behalf of the animal and on behalf of one another so as to represent hunters in the best light possible.

I am in the same mindset.

 

[CApighunter]

I’ll never advocate for anyone to use a 223 on big game. Personally a 243 is my minimum. Just because it can be done, doesn’t mean it should. There’s hundreds of better options, why limit yourself and increase risk of losing an animal? We owe it to the animal to kill as efficiently as possible.

 

[BCD]

No point in hunting with marginal setups. I would never even consider a .223 for deer let alone bear or elk.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Nothing about those pics look minimal to me.

Still, like to see some elk data...

 

[JWP58]

Don't take this personally, but I don't understand this mindset. Why should we be pulling for someone to take an elk with a .223? What is there to prove and what is at stake?

I just don't get the mindset of operating at the margins ( Whether that be energy or distance) when it comes to live game, when we have the luxury of so many other better options. That's not the hunter code of ethics I was brought up by. Please explain how using a .223 on elk is more ethical and responsible than larger calibers. I'm not being a smarta$$ - that's a serious question. I would like to think we are all interested in the cleanest most ethical kill on behalf of the animal and on behalf of one another so as to represent hunters in the best light possible.

I'm sure the mods are sweating my response, but I'll say the same, I'm not being a jerk (so dont take my response that way).

You dont like operating at margins? What margins? The margin you set? If the man is proficient, and uses his choice of weapon responsibly, why wouldn't I root for him to be successful? Do you feel the same towards stick bow users?

Bottom line is if it's legal, I wish him the best. I personally believe the combination of low recoil, ample amounts of practice (low $ per rd), and the bullet consideration, the .223 might not be marginal for the OP. I suspect a 70+ grain projectile placed through the lungs of an elk will not be considered marginal, by the elk at least (I'm sure many will still disapprove, and that's fine).

I dont see this as some type of moral issue. And even if it is a moral or ethical issue, who am I to say his choice is wrong? If you disagree that's fine to.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Marginal? Hardly. The decision is based on the ability to place a superior performing bullet accurately and precisely in all hunting conditions.

 

[EastMT]

I hunted deer and black bear for a lot of years with a 223 and a 22-250, hence my user name.

I do not anymore but it can be done effectively IF you are a good shot, patient, and willing to pass up shots that aren’t perfect.

Whitetail I only shot in the white target on the neck. I could put 10 rounds in one big ragged hole with both guns, there was no reason I couldn’t hit there in the right situation.

Black bear, I would aim high neck 4” under the chin, facing me only, no wind, no brush, perfect shot only.

I never kept a count of the count but it was a lot of years. I never failed to have a bullet leave and exit hole the size of my fist after passing through the spine.

That being said, smaller bullets require smaller mistakes to be less than fatal or not fatal fast enough. If you go this route, it should be like bow hunting. Practice practice practice, then don’t take Hail Marys. If you are willing to put in the time and effort, willing to pass up until the situation is just right, it’s legal in your area, I have no problem with it.


I have yet to be begin to procrastinate.

 

[dla]

Marginal? Hardly. The decision is based on the ability to place a superior performing bullet accurately and precisely in all hunting conditions.

And within it's limits.
When you're staring at an elk 400yds across a canyon, it can be real tempting to take the shot. Problem is that your 223 setup isn't enough for a clean kill at that distance. And giving a wounded Elk a 1/4 mile head start is a bad start to a long tracking job.

As long as your hit to tag ratio is 1 to 1 - I've no complaints.

 

[Newtosavage]

I'm sure the mods are sweating my response, but I'll say the same, I'm not being a jerk (so dont take my response that way).

You dont like operating at margins? What margins? The margin you set? If the man is proficient, and uses his choice of weapon responsibly, why wouldn't I root for him to be successful? Do you feel the same towards stick bow users?

Bottom line is if it's legal, I wish him the best. I personally believe the combination of low recoil, ample amounts of practice (low $ per rd), and the bullet consideration, the .223 might not be marginal for the OP. I suspect a 70+ grain projectile placed through the lungs of an elk will not be considered marginal, by the elk at least (I'm sure many will still disapprove, and that's fine).

I dont see this as some type of moral issue. And even if it is a moral or ethical issue, who am I to say his choice is wrong? If you disagree that's fine to.

I respect your reply and yes, I do feel the same way towards many stickbow users who are hunting with marginal setups, when they have better options.

None of us are doing this for survival or even subsistence. There is no real and valid reason to choose such a caliber other than vanity.

I'm totally on board with the low-recoil/lots of practice mindset. This is my approach and why I shoot a 7mm-08. Because I can comfortably handle that recoil from a 7lb. rifle all day and shoot as much as I wish, which makes me a better shot.

And yes, if it's legal and that's what he chooses, then I also wish him the very best of luck because the animal deserves the most humane death we can deliver, and so do all our fellow hunters. I view each of our choices as a choice by the whole community, because that's how non-hunters and anti-hunters view them too.

 

[Newtosavage]

Marginal? Hardly. The decision is based on the ability to place a superior performing bullet accurately and precisely in all hunting conditions.

And that's the largest caliber you can do that with? That's what I'm asking.

 

[JWP58]

I view each of our choices as a choice by the whole community, because that's how non-hunters and anti-hunters view them too.

In my opinion non or anti hunters wouldn't care if you used a howitzer or a .223. If they even knew the difference. It's the act they despise.

 

[204guy]

And within it's limits.
When you're staring at an elk 400yds across a canyon, it can be real tempting to take the shot. Problem is that your 223 setup isn't enough for a clean kill at that distance. And giving a wounded Elk a 1/4 mile head start is a bad start to a long tracking job.

As long as your hit to tag ratio is 1 to 1 - I've no complaints.

Gotta know your equipment and its limitations. The VAST majority of guys have no business taking that 400yd shot regardless of what cartridge they're using. I would much rather a guy that knows his .223 in and out with one of the good bullets mentioned above be taking that shot. Rather than Jim with his 300wm, duplex retical and box of whatever's cheap "bullets". How do you "know" PNWGATOR's 223 setup isn't enough for elk at 400yds? What kind of wound channels should he expect?

 

[Newtosavage]

In my opinion non or anti hunters wouldn't care if you used a howitzer or a .223. If they even knew the difference. It's the act they despise.

Anti-hunters, perhaps. But non-hunters - I would disagree. Regardless we have a responsibility to be ethical hunters and that means using the right tool for the job.

 

[Newtosavage]

Gotta know your equipment and its limitations. The VAST majority of guys have no business taking that 400yd shot regardless of what cartridge they're using. I would much rather a guy that knows his .223 in and out with one of the good bullets mentioned above be taking that shot. Rather than Jim with his 300wm, duplex retical and box of whatever's cheap "bullets". How do you "know" PNWGATOR's 223 setup isn't enough for elk at 400yds? What kind of wound channels should he expect?

Again I would ask, what's the point here? What are we trying to prove by choosing that caliber? Is there a legitimate reason for choosing that caliber? Seriously.

 

[JWP58]

Anti-hunters, perhaps. But non-hunters - I would disagree. Regardless we have a responsibility to be ethical hunters and that means using the right tool for the job.

I agree, but appeasing anti's and being ethical dont always go hand in hand.

The legitimate reason has already been discussed. Why do you assume his choice is based on an effort to prove anything? I'd say form's posts is plenty o' proof.

 

[LionHead]

Took my first deer with a .223 - 64gr Winchester power core. Granted it was smaller California blacktail at like 50 yards. Slipped in the ribs trauma to both lungs and heart and broke the far side shoulder. One and done.

I used it because it was the only rifle I had at the time. I use 308 now for more power/range/energy

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