.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[KHntr]

Interesting, a swift with a 55grainer has to be smoking and not apples to apples with a .223. But I get your point. What is his average shot distances on elk?

No clue, I’ve never asked him.

I know my own personal average shot on elk is less than 100 yards, but I can rifle hunt elk from late August right through the peak of the rut and into October. I can’t think of any bulls I’ve killed that I couldn’t have killed with a 62 TTSX and a 223. Of course, that is pretty easy to say as I didn’t shoot any of them with a 223, and I have seen bullets do some odd stuff from larger caliber rifles. And to be honest, I’ve gotten more into breaking shoulders and killing them where they stand and a 223 wouldn’t be my first choice for that.

 

[dla]

 

[260madman]

I’m not sure if Pat has used his 220 on elk. He has shot some monster Muleys with it. Do a google images search with scenarshooter 220 Swift.

 

[KHntr]

I’m not sure if Pat has used his 220 on elk. He has shot some monster Muleys with it. Do a google images search with scenarshooter 220 Swift.

I dunno, he has some good bulls with that old Sako in the pictures that have captions like “bull I shot with my 220 swift”....

 

[2five7]

What about people that are recoil shy though? What about a fast twist .204, or a fast, fast twist .17 Rem?

 

[dla]

Interesting, a swift with a 55grainer has to be smoking and not apples to apples with a .223. But I get your point. What is his average shot distances on elk?

The 220 Swift is quite a bit more cartridge than the 223. A 55gr pill moving at 3800fps from the Swift versus 3300fps from the 223.

 

[Formidilosus]

I am a little worried about this statement - "The terminal performance is on par with anything I’ve seen in a .284 or .30. Unreal performance. The bullet is a BEAST!"

No, it is not "on par" with 30cal fodder - not even a 30-30. It is a very marginal cartridge/bullet that CAN work if the shooter stays within its limitations. Sorry to burst your bubble, but better now than this fall when you post a sob-story about how you made a good hit and never found the elk.

How many animals have you killed with the bullet the OP used to make the above statement?

 

[KHntr]

What about people that are recoil shy though? What about a fast twist .204, or a fast, fast twist .17 Rem?

Bullets...

 

[Formidilosus]

Nice work on the bear Chris.

This should be a great thread for open-minded people

It would be neat if we had a factual discussion with people that actually have used them.....





For those that think “caliber” determines “killing power” and that there is a huge difference between them...

What bullets and cartridges did these-

 

[Glendon Mullins]

I took a 223 to Georgia year before last, I read alot of online forums about 50% saying 223 was fine for hogs and 50% said no don't do it!! etc. etc. etc.

I consider myself a decent shot, and the people who said 223 was fine preached "shot placement"

I bought the more expensive 223 "Hog Hammers" made by remington, i think they are/were 62 grain bullets, barnes tsx's loaded in reminton brass/powder. I had previously used the same type bullets in my ar-10 308 before I decided it was too dang heavy to lug around. Love those Barne's bullets.

1st hog i missed because i was trying for the infamous "hog neck/head shot "that was preached with the 223 on the forums, after the miss i said screw that hit em in the lungs/heart like u have always done on pretty much any animal

Anyway 2nd hog i shoot took 2 shots before it went down, medium sow about 110 pounds, one shoulder shot and one lung shot in back of ribs

2nd Hog dropped in it's tracks, perfect high shoulder hit

3rd hog (which was big boar) ran off like i threw a rock at him, aimed at the shoulder, in a shooting house with perfect rest, the hog didn't even flinch, I KNOW i hit him good. No blood, lost hog

To summarize i shoulda killed 4 hogs that trip, only came home with 2, never again will i take 223 after anything other than coyotes, fox, or the like. I know i could probably kill a deer with it, but I also know in the back of my mind that deer could run off and not be found as well, which is enough for me not to use 223 on big game

Will 223 kill big game, YUP!! Will 223 cause you to lose some big game YUP!!! lol

 

[Formidilosus]

Cont-


















To be continued....

 

[Formidilosus]

Will 223 kill big game, YUP!! Will 223 cause you to lose some big game YUP!!! lol

No. You listened to conventional wisdom with regards to small calibers, and while I’m sure I’ve not killed as many animals as most, between hunting and depredation I have killed and seen killed hundreds of deer.... and a few more than that. Around 40 deer with Barnes it was clear that they create less damage, and the animals run farther after being shot. I’m only personally at around 100 deer with 77gr TMK’s and the farther animal has traveled less than 30 feet sliding downhill.



This is why I constantly go against the grain with “shoot a Barnes!”

Barnes TSX’s and other monos create relatively narrow wound channels and consequently kill slower. The wound from a 62gr TSX really isn’t a whole lot different than from a mechanical broadhead. 77gr TMK’s, 75gr SPGD, 75gr AMAX/ELD-M, etc. create horrific wounds, and kill very quickly.

 

[OXN939]

Lol @ the OP who started the dumpster fire and ran...

 

[Glendon Mullins]

No. You listened to conventional wisdom with regards to small calibers, and while I’m sure I’ve not killed as many animals as most, between hunting and depredation I have killed and seen killed hundreds of deer.... and a few more than that. Around 40 deer with Barnes it was clear that they create less damage, and the animals run farther after being shot. I’m only personally at around 100 deer with 77gr TMK’s and the farther animal has traveled less than 30 feet sliding downhill.



This is why I constantly go against the grain with “shoot a Barnes!”

Barnes TSX’s and other monos create relatively narrow wound channels and consequently kill slower. The wound from a 62gr TSX really isn’t a whole lot different than from a mechanical broadhead. 77gr TMK’s, 75gr SPGD, 75gr AMAX/ELD-M, etc. create horrific wounds, and kill very quickly.

I havent had the chance to use any TMK bullets, perhaps I will buy some and load them up for this coming deer season

I did use winchester ballistic silvertips on my mule deer hunt last year and will agree, they tear up some stuff!!

 

[Formidilosus]

I havent had the chance to use any TMK bullets, perhaps I will buy some and load them up for this coming deer season

I did use winchester ballistic silvertips on my mule deer hunt last year and will agree, they tear up some stuff!!

To be clear Barnes TSX/TTSX’s are good bullets. But unless you hit the CNS animals run farther than with others.


The TMK does more damage on average than the .308 168gr Ballistic Tips, while giving 18-22” of penetration.

 

[koppertop]

I appreciate the comments on barnes bullets. As a CA resident I'm soon stuck with non-lead only for in-state hunts. The 77 TMK is no doubt effective based on the destruction in Form's photos, for someone required to shoot non-lead would you recommend the .223 as a primary rifle for deer? I'm nowhere near a ballistics expert, but it looks like velocity with the 62 ttsx would drop off quickly and limit the range for expansion/effectiveness, correct? I understand that ttsx/etc require higher velocity than a conventional bullet to expand in general regardless of caliber.

Slightly off topic but we are beating around the bush anyways, if you were forced to go non-lead what cartridge and bullet would you choose for deer if not .223? What range/velocity limitation would you put on yourself with said cartridge/bullet?

 

[cmahoney]

Is this the new .223 Creedmoor?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chindits]

I shot a cow elk at about 50 yards with an AR. It was at night so I had to hold a flashlight on it while shooting. Slightly uphill on an open slope above the highway. It was standing still with blood coming out it’s mouth before I shot. I shot several rounds and I remember it was still standing with blood coming out it’s mouth. It must of eventually tipped over as I don’t remember ever climbing up the bank to check on it. It wasn’t a challenging or hurried shot. It was duty ammo, so at that time I think we were issued a Winchester soft point.

I was underwhelmed by the results I saw, but I didn’t bother with examining the critter. The only time I really remember being impressed with the gun, was when I just got lucky and nailed a dog at a full run right behind a doe at about 150 yards on that same highway ironically.

 

[Formidilosus]

I appreciate the comments on barnes bullets. As a CA resident I'm soon stuck with non-lead only for in-state hunts. The 77 TMK is no doubt effective based on the destruction in Form's photos, for someone required to shoot non-lead would you recommend the .223 as a primary rifle for deer? I'm nowhere near a ballistics expert, but it looks like velocity with the 62 ttsx would drop off quickly and limit the range for expansion/effectiveness, correct? I understand that ttsx/etc require higher velocity than a conventional bullet to expand in general regardless of caliber.

Slightly off topic but we are beating around the bush anyways, if you were forced to go non-lead what cartridge and bullet would you choose for deer if not .223? What range/velocity limitation would you put on yourself with said cartridge/bullet?

Going lead free hurts. I would still use smaller calibers if I reloaded, but only with Cutting Edge bullets. Otherwise the Barnes LRX’s do better than most monos. They have a 77gr .224, but I haven’t used it yet. The 127gr LRX in 6.5mm have done well however.

 

[juan trueno]

0 77TMK experience. But I’ve shot more whitetails with 223 than evertheing else combined. My sons first two come to mind.


My sons first deer was about a 90lb doe at less than 15 yards quartering toward. Shot point of the leading shoulder broke it got, the heart the lung and the 55 grain tsx lost a petal and came to rest unde the skin in the offside flank. Deer went 30 yards and I almost had to go get the dog to find her.

Fast forward 12 months same shot from same stool behind the same bush on 4 year old buck. Buck jumped really high and all the way across the firebreak on impact and there was a spray of blood all the way across the firebreak to where the buck was dead there in the brush where he landed after that jump. Most of the 62 grain fusion was recovered under the skin of the rib cage- no exit wound- no problem- it still was a bloodbath.


There’s just no comparison. If I have to shoot lead free im like everyone else- stoke them as fast as you can and break those shoulders. And not happy about it.