.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Marbles]

So you cannot disagree with his recommendation not to recommend the .223, despite your recommendation to recommend the .223?

No, I cannot disagree with the fact that HE would not recommend it.

I can and do disagree with the recommendation. Seriously though, who am I to tell him he doesn't know his own mind, troll or not.

 

[Tell]

I just had a chance to meet up with friends I haven’t seen in a while and told them about my hunting season. A deer and elk, one shot apiece, ran less than 50 yards and dead with the 223. I thought it would spark some interest in the little bullet but one of them says to me, “Hell I’ll loan you a 30 cal if you need one.” I just thought you guys would appreciate that.

 

[JackButler]

His own mind doesn’t change reality though. If he believes the earth is flat, who am I to tell him his own mind? To me it doesn’t matter what he thinks, he’s objectively wrong.

No, I cannot disagree with the fact that HE would not recommend it.

I can and do disagree with the recommendation. Seriously though, who am I to tell him he doesn't know his own mind, troll or not.

 

[Marbles]

His own mind doesn’t change reality though. If he believes the earth is flat, who am I to tell him his own mind? To me it doesn’t matter what he thinks, he’s objectively wrong.

It was a lawyerly word game that ignored the obvious intended meaning by strictly sticking to the words. It was intended to be funny and make the point that a troll throwing out bait is not worth engaging.

Very clearly I failed. I will hang my head in shame for 3 milliseconds, then stop cluttering this thread.

 

[Pharmseller]

No, I cannot disagree with the fact that HE would not recommend it.

I can and do disagree with the recommendation. Seriously though, who am I to tell him he doesn't know his own mind, troll or not.

 

[IDVortex]

It was a lawyerly word game that ignored the obvious intended meaning by strictly sticking to the words. It was intended to be funny and make the point that a troll throwing out bait is not worth engaging.

Very clearly I failed. I will hang my head in shame for 3 milliseconds, then stop cluttering this thread.

Since when are lawyers funny?

 

[mitchellbk]

Looks like black hills ammo finally got some of their 77 TMKs out in the marketplace

 

[SBR Sarge]

Looks like black hills ammo finally got some of their 77 TMKs out in the marketplace

BLACK HILLS AMMUNITION 5.56x45mm NATO 77gr TMK 50/Box SKU: 105001400 | Brownells

Check out the BLACK HILLS AMMUNITION 5.56x45mm NATO 77gr TMK 50/Box SKU: 105001400 available Online at Brownells Today and many more Rifle Ammunition products are available in our Ammunition Department.

www.brownells.com

 

[prairieboy]

so last fall due to this thread I loaded up some 77 gr tmk and gave them to a buddy to try, sounded like the perfect round for his kids who are getting into hunting, and are needing something light recoiling. We both have tikka 8 twist 223s. I tried varget, h 4895, and imr 8208 before settling on 8208 cause thats the only one i could bet 2800+ out of. I have since switched to tac with the same speeds and accuracy and its findable. I was never able to get better groups than a consistent 1 inch 5 shot group. Despite both our guns shooting much much better accuracy with a lot of other bullets, mostly 50-55 gr varmint bullets, never tried heavier. I have aftermarket mags which allow me to seat anywhere I please, everything was tried.

So all together they shot 6 deer with them and here is where it gets interesting. Low 2800s muzzle velocity.

All shot broadside behind shoulder at 90 yards and under. No big whitetail bucks, all does and spikes. 3 went down fast. 1 stumbled 50 yards and left a lot of blood. 2 ran 50 to 60 yards and left 0 blood . 0 of 6 bullets exited. Nothing really found under the hide or inside besides shrapnel. Big holes in first lung, a lot smaller hole in second. No bones hit besides ribs. bullets seemed very splashy, not alot of penetration at these closer ranges. Honestly a tough 55 gr sp from speer, sierra or hornady(they all make a tough sp 55gr 22 cal) does better penetration wise.

 

[eric1115]

so last fall due to this thread I loaded up some 77 gr tmk and gave them to a buddy to try, sounded like the perfect round for his kids who are getting into hunting, and are needing something light recoiling. We both have tikka 8 twist 223s. I tried varget, h 4895, and imr 8208 before settling on 8208 cause thats the only one i could bet 2800+ out of. I have since switched to tac with the same speeds and accuracy and its findable. I was never able to get better groups than a consistent 1 inch 5 shot group. Despite both our guns shooting much much better accuracy with a lot of other bullets, mostly 50-55 gr varmint bullets, never tried heavier. I have aftermarket mags which allow me to seat anywhere I please, everything was tried.

So all together they shot 6 deer with them and here is where it gets interesting. Low 2800s muzzle velocity.

All shot broadside behind shoulder at 90 yards and under. No big whitetail bucks, all does and spikes. 3 went down fast. 1 stumbled 50 yards and left a lot of blood. 2 ran 50 to 60 yards and left 0 blood . 0 of 6 bullets exited. Nothing really found under the hide or inside besides shrapnel. Big holes in first lung, a lot smaller hole in second. No bones hit besides ribs. bullets seemed very splashy, not alot of penetration at these closer ranges. Honestly a tough 55 gr sp from speer, sierra or hornady(they all make a tough sp 55gr 22 cal) does better penetration wise.

Do you think a 55 SP would have given you quicker kills than the 3/6 DRT and 3/6 50ish yard runs?

Also, if you want exits there's no need to push speed. I've gotten good exits out of that bullet on 200 yard shots. If those 100 to 200 (even 300) yard shots are the norm for the kids you're loading for and you want exit holes, just dump a mild load of varget (or tax or whatever you like) in, shoot them at 2500 or 2600 MV and follow your 50 yard blood trails. You only need to chase that velocity of you want upset velocity at 400+.

 

[prairieboy]

Do you think a 55 SP would have given you quicker kills than the 3/6 DRT and 3/6 50ish yard runs?

Also, if you want exits there's no need to push speed. I've gotten good exits out of that bullet on 200 yard shots. If those 100 to 200 (even 300) yard shots are the norm for the kids you're loading for and you want exit holes, just dump a mild load of varget (or tax or whatever you like) in, shoot them at 2500 or 2600 MV and follow your 50 yard blood trails. You only need to chase that velocity of you want upset velocity at 400+.

the tough 55 gr sp kill very well. Either exit or nice mushroom on the other side under the hide.

 

[eric1115]

the tough 55 gr sp kill very well. Either exit or nice mushroom on the other side under the hide.

No doubt they do fine. But aside from the pretty shape of the mushroom, do you think they kill more effectively?

Like based on those 6 (which I'd say are well within the window of what I expect to see given that impact velocity), if you saw video of 20 deer dying that way and 20 the way you expect with a 55SP, and you couldn't inspect bullets afterwards or know which was which, in what way does the deer's behavior after the shot differ?

 

[Tahr]

No doubt they do fine. But aside from the pretty shape of the mushroom, do you think they kill more effectively?

Like based on those 6 (which I'd say are well within the window of what I expect to see given that impact velocity), if you saw video of 20 deer dying that way and 20 the way you expect with a 55SP, and you couldn't inspect bullets afterwards or know which was which, in what way does the deer's behavior after the shot differ?

I think it would be useful for the 77grn TMK mist to be cleared from some people's eyes. As much as this thread illustrates they work very well it also shows that there is a cluster of other projectiles that are also very effective. We shouldn't be blinded to that. They don't need to be listed 'cos as the fans say, "read the thread".
I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if the only projectile I could use on deer in my .223 was a Gameking. The weight wouldn't concern me much.

 

[prairieboy]

I think it would be useful for the 77grn TMK mist to be cleared from some people's eyes. As much as this thread illustrates they work very well it also shows that there is a cluster of other projectiles that are also very effective. We shouldn't be blinded to that. They don't need to be listed 'cos as the fans say, "read the thread".
I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if the only projectile I could use on deer in my .223 was a Gameking. The weight wouldn't concern me much.

yup the 55 gr 1365 and the bigger version, is it 65 gr? those are about the most versatile hunting bullets all around in 22 cal there is. unless you need the new high bc stuff. and they shoot groups 1/3 the size in my guns as the 77 tmk

 

[eric1115]

I think it would be useful for the 77grn TMK mist to be cleared from some people's eyes. As much as this thread illustrates they work very well it also shows that there is a cluster of other projectiles that are also very effective. We shouldn't be blinded to that. They don't need to be listed 'cos as the fans say, "read the thread".
I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if the only projectile I could use on deer in my .223 was a Gameking. The weight wouldn't concern me much.

The only 77TMK mist I have comes from rock chucks.

There are lots of good .223 bullets for 200 yard and under shots on deer. There aren't many that are good to 400+ with .223rem MV's. That's the unique thing about this bullet, 400+ yard terminal performance with .223 recoil exists with 77TMK, 73ELDM, and that's about it if you're loading to 2.25 mag length.

 

[Tahr]

The only 77TMK mist I have comes from rock chucks.

There are lots of good .223 bullets for 200 yard and under shots on deer. There aren't many that are good to 400+ with .223rem MV's. That's the unique thing about this bullet, 400+ yard terminal performance with .223 recoil exists with 77TMK, 73ELDM, and that's about it if you're loading to 2.25 mag length.

There's a whole cluster of bullets in that 70-80 grn class that you could throw a blanket over for performance.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

Anybody know anything about these 75gr tipped bullets?

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....224-diameter-75-grain-bulk-poly-tip-250-count

 

[Mike D Texas]

Anybody know anything about these 75gr tipped bullets?

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....224-diameter-75-grain-bulk-poly-tip-250-count

View attachment 716834

I have some of the 6.5mm 107 grain models and the external ballistics are nearly identical to the 107 TMK. I bought them to shoot in my 6.5 Grendel Howa Mini. They do not have the cannelure like these do though.

Unfortunately I do not have any on game performance data to compare though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Igloo]

From the sound and pictures, I think I'd like what the TMK does starting around 2600 fps or so much more where its less splashy.

 

[kcormack]

Anybody know anything about these 75gr tipped bullets?

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....224-diameter-75-grain-bulk-poly-tip-250-count

View attachment 716834

AAC "Sabre Blade Black Tip"